Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the
years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They
also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably
better ….
Bob
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ?
S/N, Rev # ??
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the
years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They
also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably
better ….
Bob
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
The parts we typically call TBolt’s were produced from about 1997 through about 2006.
The date codes on the parts are one way to work out how far along the uint you have is
in that sequence. There are other parts that Trimble produced (produces) under the same
Thunderbolt brand. Those can be quite different beasts depending on which one you
happen to be looking at.
The early parts had OCXO’s labeled “PIEZO” on them. The later parts had a generic
“TRIMBLE” label on them. The PIEZO labels have a date code stamped on them sort
of randomly. The TRIMBLE labels have a field marked “date code”. In all cases I have seen
it’s a two digit year followed by a two digit week.
Anything with a PIEZO label is “early”. Anything from about 2003 on should be a pretty good
OCXO. There are no guarantees, but that’s a pretty good guess.
There are also changes in the temperature sensor IC and mods to the firmware along the
way. The novel approach to a precision DAC and the resulting “noticeable” temperature
coefficient seems to have been a constant through the entire production run. They also
have various little spurs and noise bumps that some people get into cleaning up.
The good news is that they all (from the first unit to the very last) run very well with LH.
That more than any other factor makes them a really good choice. When tuned up,
set up, and monitored with LH, they do much better than they would just running on their own.
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ?
S/N, Rev # ??
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the
years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They
also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably
better ….
Bob
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
The two I have are Trimbles with Red & Black Labels with White letters.
It's marked D/C 0635, which if I assume is the Date Code puts them in
2006.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 8:32 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
The parts we typically call TBolt’s were produced from about 1997 through about 2006.
The date codes on the parts are one way to work out how far along the uint you have is
in that sequence. There are other parts that Trimble produced (produces) under the same
Thunderbolt brand. Those can be quite different beasts depending on which one you
happen to be looking at.
The early parts had OCXO’s labeled “PIEZO” on them. The later parts had a generic
“TRIMBLE” label on them. The PIEZO labels have a date code stamped on them sort
of randomly. The TRIMBLE labels have a field marked “date code”. In all cases I have seen
it’s a two digit year followed by a two digit week.
Anything with a PIEZO label is “early”. Anything from about 2003 on should be a pretty good
OCXO. There are no guarantees, but that’s a pretty good guess.
There are also changes in the temperature sensor IC and mods to the firmware along the
way. The novel approach to a precision DAC and the resulting “noticeable” temperature
coefficient seems to have been a constant through the entire production run. They also
have various little spurs and noise bumps that some people get into cleaning up.
The good news is that they all (from the first unit to the very last) run very well with LH.
That more than any other factor makes them a really good choice. When tuned up,
set up, and monitored with LH, they do much better than they would just running on their own.
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ?
S/N, Rev # ??
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the
years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They
also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably
better ….
Bob
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
If the sticker on the OCXO (not the label on the outside of the box) has a date code
in 2006, that should be fine. I’ve seen cases on … errr … various sites … errr …
where the stuff inside the box did not match up very well with the labels on the outside
of the box. No idea why ….
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 12:26 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
The two I have are Trimbles with Red & Black Labels with White letters.
It's marked D/C 0635, which if I assume is the Date Code puts them in
2006.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 8:32 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
The parts we typically call TBolt’s were produced from about 1997 through about 2006.
The date codes on the parts are one way to work out how far along the uint you have is
in that sequence. There are other parts that Trimble produced (produces) under the same
Thunderbolt brand. Those can be quite different beasts depending on which one you
happen to be looking at.
The early parts had OCXO’s labeled “PIEZO” on them. The later parts had a generic
“TRIMBLE” label on them. The PIEZO labels have a date code stamped on them sort
of randomly. The TRIMBLE labels have a field marked “date code”. In all cases I have seen
it’s a two digit year followed by a two digit week.
Anything with a PIEZO label is “early”. Anything from about 2003 on should be a pretty good
OCXO. There are no guarantees, but that’s a pretty good guess.
There are also changes in the temperature sensor IC and mods to the firmware along the
way. The novel approach to a precision DAC and the resulting “noticeable” temperature
coefficient seems to have been a constant through the entire production run. They also
have various little spurs and noise bumps that some people get into cleaning up.
The good news is that they all (from the first unit to the very last) run very well with LH.
That more than any other factor makes them a really good choice. When tuned up,
set up, and monitored with LH, they do much better than they would just running on their own.
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ?
S/N, Rev # ??
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the
years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They
also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably
better ….
Bob
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
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Hi All
I have just pulled out of redundant stock a Trimble 2102 Plus satellite
navigation unit for an aircraft can this be used as a frequency standard at
such as 1/5/10 Mhz
Paul B
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob
kb8tq
Sent: 05 February 2019 19:12
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
If the sticker on the OCXO (not the label on the outside of the box) has a
date code
in 2006, that should be fine. I've seen cases on . errr . various sites .
errr .
where the stuff inside the box did not match up very well with the labels on
the outside
of the box. No idea why ..
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 12:26 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
The two I have are Trimbles with Red & Black Labels with White letters.
It's marked D/C 0635, which if I assume is the Date Code puts them in
2006.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 8:32 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
The parts we typically call TBolt's were produced from about 1997 through
about 2006.
The date codes on the parts are one way to work out how far along the uint
you have is
in that sequence. There are other parts that Trimble produced (produces)
under the same
Thunderbolt brand. Those can be quite different beasts depending on which
one you
happen to be looking at.
The early parts had OCXO's labeled "PIEZO" on them. The later parts had a
generic "TRIMBLE" label on them. The PIEZO labels have a date code stamped
on them sort of randomly. The TRIMBLE labels have a field marked "date
code". In all cases I have seen it's a two digit year followed by a two
digit week. Anything with a PIEZO label is "early". Anything from about
2003 on should be a pretty good
OCXO. There are no guarantees, but that's a pretty good guess.
There are also changes in the temperature sensor IC and mods to the
firmware along the way. The novel approach to a precision DAC and the
resulting "noticeable" temperature coefficient seems to have been a
constant through the entire production run. They also have various little.
spurs and noise bumps that some people get into cleaning up
The good news is that they all (from the first unit to the very last) run.
very well with LH That more than any other factor makes them a really
good choice. When tuned up,set up, and monitored with LH, they do much
better than they would just running on their own.
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ?
S/N, Rev # ??
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo's used in them got better as
the years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a
later one. They also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic
issue - later is probably better ..
Bob
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant
Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 60
khz since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over
the past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am
not familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
Here's a shot of what's inside those T-Bolts I bought.
(thanks to tvb for reducing the size of my original).
Comments solicited ...
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 12:11 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
If the sticker on the OCXO (not the label on the outside of the box) has a date code
in 2006, that should be fine. I’ve seen cases on … errr … various sites … errr …
where the stuff inside the box did not match up very well with the labels on the outside
of the box. No idea why ….
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 12:26 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
The two I have are Trimbles with Red & Black Labels with White letters.
It's marked D/C 0635, which if I assume is the Date Code puts them in
2006.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 8:32 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
The parts we typically call TBolt’s were produced from about 1997 through about 2006.
The date codes on the parts are one way to work out how far along the uint you have is
in that sequence. There are other parts that Trimble produced (produces) under the same
Thunderbolt brand. Those can be quite different beasts depending on which one you
happen to be looking at.
The early parts had OCXO’s labeled “PIEZO” on them. The later parts had a generic
“TRIMBLE” label on them. The PIEZO labels have a date code stamped on them sort
of randomly. The TRIMBLE labels have a field marked “date code”. In all cases I have seen
it’s a two digit year followed by a two digit week.
Anything with a PIEZO label is “early”. Anything from about 2003 on should be a pretty good
OCXO. There are no guarantees, but that’s a pretty good guess.
There are also changes in the temperature sensor IC and mods to the firmware along the
way. The novel approach to a precision DAC and the resulting “noticeable” temperature
coefficient seems to have been a constant through the entire production run. They also
have various little spurs and noise bumps that some people get into cleaning up.
The good news is that they all (from the first unit to the very last) run very well with LH.
That more than any other factor makes them a really good choice. When tuned up,
set up, and monitored with LH, they do much better than they would just running on their own.
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ?
S/N, Rev # ??
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the
years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They
also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably
better ….
Bob
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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Hi
That’s an odd one. It is very unclear where that OCXO came from.
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 7:16 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
Here's a shot of what's inside those T-Bolts I bought.
(thanks to tvb for reducing the size of my original).
Comments solicited ...
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 12:11 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
If the sticker on the OCXO (not the label on the outside of the box) has a date code
in 2006, that should be fine. I’ve seen cases on … errr … various sites … errr …
where the stuff inside the box did not match up very well with the labels on the outside
of the box. No idea why ….
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 12:26 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
The two I have are Trimbles with Red & Black Labels with White letters.
It's marked D/C 0635, which if I assume is the Date Code puts them in
2006.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 8:32 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
The parts we typically call TBolt’s were produced from about 1997 through about 2006.
The date codes on the parts are one way to work out how far along the uint you have is
in that sequence. There are other parts that Trimble produced (produces) under the same
Thunderbolt brand. Those can be quite different beasts depending on which one you
happen to be looking at.
The early parts had OCXO’s labeled “PIEZO” on them. The later parts had a generic
“TRIMBLE” label on them. The PIEZO labels have a date code stamped on them sort
of randomly. The TRIMBLE labels have a field marked “date code”. In all cases I have seen
it’s a two digit year followed by a two digit week.
Anything with a PIEZO label is “early”. Anything from about 2003 on should be a pretty good
OCXO. There are no guarantees, but that’s a pretty good guess.
There are also changes in the temperature sensor IC and mods to the firmware along the
way. The novel approach to a precision DAC and the resulting “noticeable” temperature
coefficient seems to have been a constant through the entire production run. They also
have various little spurs and noise bumps that some people get into cleaning up.
The good news is that they all (from the first unit to the very last) run very well with LH.
That more than any other factor makes them a really good choice. When tuned up,
set up, and monitored with LH, they do much better than they would just running on their own.
Bob
On Feb 5, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ?
S/N, Rev # ??
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Hi
One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the
years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They
also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably
better ….
Bob
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon w1ksz@outlook.com wrote:
There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site
that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones).
I grabbed two and they work.
My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window
sash, facing South.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com on behalf of Grant Hodgson grant@ghengineering.co.uk
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Paul
The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of
these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as
the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of
national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards
in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories.
The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus
market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an
excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you
want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you
want the details.
If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and
Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if
they do a GPSDO though).
Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com
website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case
of using the right term in the search engine.
regards
Grant
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000
From: "Paul Bicknell" paul@bicknells.f2s.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system
Message-ID: D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear all
I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz
since it moved from Rugby
I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites
This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the
past 5 years
So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ?
What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not
familiar with the latest that are on offer?
Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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<IMG_0987-1200x800.jpg>_______________________________________________
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