I noticed that a similar Trimble Thunderbolt is for sale over on Ali Express. Has older firmware (Ver. 2.2) and a much higher price. 73, Dick, W1KSZ Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> ________________________________ From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 6:17 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system Hi That’s an odd one. It is very unclear *where* that OCXO came from. Bob > On Feb 5, 2019, at 7:16 PM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: > > Here's a shot of what's inside those T-Bolts I bought. > (thanks to tvb for reducing the size of my original). > > Comments solicited ... > > 73, Dick, W1KSZ > > Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> > ________________________________ > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> > Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 12:11 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system > > Hi > > If the sticker on the OCXO (not the label on the outside of the box) has a date code > in 2006, that should be fine. I’ve seen cases on … errr … various sites … errr … > where the stuff inside the box did not match up very well with the labels on the outside > of the box. No idea why …. > > Bob > >> On Feb 5, 2019, at 12:26 PM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: >> >> The two I have are Trimbles with Red & Black Labels with White letters. >> It's marked D/C 0635, which if I assume is the Date Code puts them in >> 2006. >> >> 73, Dick, W1KSZ >> >> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> >> ________________________________ >> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 8:32 AM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >> >> Hi >> >> The parts we typically call TBolt’s were produced from about 1997 through about 2006. >> The date codes on the parts are one way to work out how far along the uint you have is >> in that sequence. There are other parts that Trimble produced (produces) under the same >> Thunderbolt brand. Those can be quite different beasts depending on which one you >> happen to be looking at. >> >> The early parts had OCXO’s labeled “PIEZO” on them. The later parts had a generic >> “TRIMBLE” label on them. The PIEZO labels have a date code stamped on them sort >> of randomly. The TRIMBLE labels have a field marked “date code”. In all cases I have seen >> it’s a two digit year followed by a two digit week. >> >> Anything with a PIEZO label is “early”. Anything from about 2003 on should be a pretty good >> OCXO. There are no guarantees, but that’s a pretty good guess. >> >> There are also changes in the temperature sensor IC and mods to the firmware along the >> way. The novel approach to a precision DAC and the resulting “noticeable” temperature >> coefficient seems to have been a constant through the entire production run. They also >> have various little spurs and noise bumps that some people get into cleaning up. >> >> The good news is that they all (from the first unit to the very last) run very well with LH. >> *That* more than any other factor makes them a really good choice. When tuned up, >> set up, and monitored with LH, they do much better than they would just running on their own. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Feb 5, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: >>> >>> How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ? >>> >>> S/N, Rev # ?? >>> >>> 73, Dick, W1KSZ >>> >>> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>> Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the >>> years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They >>> also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably >>> better …. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site >>>> that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones). >>>> I grabbed two and they work. >>>> >>>> My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window >>>> sash, facing South. >>>> >>>> 73, Dick, W1KSZ >>>> >>>> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Grant Hodgson <grant@ghengineering.co.uk> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM >>>> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of >>>> these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as >>>> the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of >>>> national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards >>>> in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories. >>>> >>>> The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus >>>> market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an >>>> excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you >>>> want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you >>>> want the details. >>>> >>>> If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and >>>> Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if >>>> they do a GPSDO though). >>>> >>>> Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com >>>> website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case >>>> of using the right term in the search engine. >>>> >>>> regards >>>> Grant >>>> >>>>> Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000 >>>>> From: "Paul Bicknell" <paul@bicknells.f2s.com> >>>>> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" >>>>> <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >>>>> Message-ID: <D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear all >>>>> I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz >>>>> since it moved from Rugby >>>>> I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites >>>>> This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the >>>>> past 5 years >>>>> >>>>> So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ? >>>>> >>>>> What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not >>>>> familiar with the latest that are on offer? >>>>> >>>>> Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > <IMG_0987-1200x800.jpg>_______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.

Hi The white-ish label may just be a variation on the more normal tan-ish looking one. There’s no reason to avoid a unit just because somebody decided to use a different label. Bob > On Feb 7, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: > > I noticed that a similar Trimble Thunderbolt is for sale over on > Ali Express. Has older firmware (Ver. 2.2) and a much higher price. > > 73, Dick, W1KSZ > > Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> > ________________________________ > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> > Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 6:17 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system > > Hi > > That’s an odd one. It is very unclear *where* that OCXO came from. > > Bob > >> On Feb 5, 2019, at 7:16 PM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: >> >> Here's a shot of what's inside those T-Bolts I bought. >> (thanks to tvb for reducing the size of my original). >> >> Comments solicited ... >> >> 73, Dick, W1KSZ >> >> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> >> ________________________________ >> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 12:11 PM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >> >> Hi >> >> If the sticker on the OCXO (not the label on the outside of the box) has a date code >> in 2006, that should be fine. I’ve seen cases on … errr … various sites … errr … >> where the stuff inside the box did not match up very well with the labels on the outside >> of the box. No idea why …. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Feb 5, 2019, at 12:26 PM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: >>> >>> The two I have are Trimbles with Red & Black Labels with White letters. >>> It's marked D/C 0635, which if I assume is the Date Code puts them in >>> 2006. >>> >>> 73, Dick, W1KSZ >>> >>> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 8:32 AM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> The parts we typically call TBolt’s were produced from about 1997 through about 2006. >>> The date codes on the parts are one way to work out how far along the uint you have is >>> in that sequence. There are other parts that Trimble produced (produces) under the same >>> Thunderbolt brand. Those can be quite different beasts depending on which one you >>> happen to be looking at. >>> >>> The early parts had OCXO’s labeled “PIEZO” on them. The later parts had a generic >>> “TRIMBLE” label on them. The PIEZO labels have a date code stamped on them sort >>> of randomly. The TRIMBLE labels have a field marked “date code”. In all cases I have seen >>> it’s a two digit year followed by a two digit week. >>> >>> Anything with a PIEZO label is “early”. Anything from about 2003 on should be a pretty good >>> OCXO. There are no guarantees, but that’s a pretty good guess. >>> >>> There are also changes in the temperature sensor IC and mods to the firmware along the >>> way. The novel approach to a precision DAC and the resulting “noticeable” temperature >>> coefficient seems to have been a constant through the entire production run. They also >>> have various little spurs and noise bumps that some people get into cleaning up. >>> >>> The good news is that they all (from the first unit to the very last) run very well with LH. >>> *That* more than any other factor makes them a really good choice. When tuned up, >>> set up, and monitored with LH, they do much better than they would just running on their own. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Feb 5, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> How does one tell the difference between "early" and "later" ? >>>> >>>> S/N, Rev # ?? >>>> >>>> 73, Dick, W1KSZ >>>> >>>> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:23 PM >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> One thing to watch on the TBolts - the ocxo’s used in them got better as the >>>> years went by. An early one likely will not do quite as well as a later one. They >>>> also updated the firmware as time went by, same basic issue - later is probably >>>> better …. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:51 PM, Richard Solomon <w1ksz@outlook.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> There have been some Trimble Thunderbolts over on that auction site >>>>> that were being sold for $80 each (not surplus Telcom ones). >>>>> I grabbed two and they work. >>>>> >>>>> My antenna was a "hockey puck" style antenna sitting on the window >>>>> sash, facing South. >>>>> >>>>> 73, Dick, W1KSZ >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com> on behalf of Grant Hodgson <grant@ghengineering.co.uk> >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 11:15 AM >>>>> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> The keyword is GPSDO - GPS disciplined oscillator. The vast majority of >>>>> these will give a 10MHz output. The long term accuracy is the same as >>>>> the GPS navigation system, which for most purposes is similar to that of >>>>> national standards. GPSDOs are more stable than most rubidium standards >>>>> in the long term, and GPSDOs are extremely common in most laboratories. >>>>> >>>>> The Trimble Thunderbolt is very common and available on the surplus >>>>> market, as is the HP Z3801A. James Miller (G3RUH) used to sell an >>>>> excellent GPSDO. There are other home-brew designs available if you >>>>> want to build. These have all been extensively characterised if you >>>>> want the details. >>>>> >>>>> If you want to buy new, then there are products such as the Fury and >>>>> Firefly from Jackson Labs; , U-Blox have many offerings (not sure if >>>>> they do a GPSDO though). >>>>> >>>>> Google GPSDO or GPS frequency standard, or check the leapsecond.com >>>>> website for more information - there's loads out there, it's just a case >>>>> of using the right term in the search engine. >>>>> >>>>> regards >>>>> Grant >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:43:10 -0000 >>>>>> From: "Paul Bicknell" <paul@bicknells.f2s.com> >>>>>> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" >>>>>> <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >>>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] 10 mhz accuracy for a satellite system >>>>>> Message-ID: <D1F28D64EDD440EC834753538090F381@precision380> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all >>>>>> I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz >>>>>> since it moved from Rugby >>>>>> I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites >>>>>> This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the >>>>>> past 5 years >>>>>> >>>>>> So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ? >>>>>> >>>>>> What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below ?800 as I am not >>>>>> familiar with the latest that are on offer? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> <IMG_0987-1200x800.jpg>_______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.