Ring counter, made out of Potato Semiconductor PO74G74A's? Except those
don't come in DIP as far as I know. But consider that the spacing on a SOIC
is just the same as spacing on a TO-92.

I know that ECL dividers/prescalers e.g. 11C90 used to come in DIP but I
only see SMD ECL now. e.g. MC10EP139.

Tim N3QE

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Joseph Gray jgray@zianet.com wrote:

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray jgray@zianet.com wrote:

Some SMDs are easy to solder by hand.  Others such as ball grid array is
impossible.

An easy SMD prototype board can be made by sawing the edge connectors off
some old RAM memory or PCI boards and gluing down a parallel row of them.
Dead bug style works well with SMD also.

We are going to have to get used to working with these.

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

Hi:

I have some info on working with SMD parts at:
http://www.prc68.com/I/SMT.shtml
The key thing is to get parts with a reasonable pitch, 0.1" is a standard DIP pitch.
0.050" (1.27 or 1.25 mm) is half DIP and is easy to do with a fine tip soldering iron and small dia. solder that I
normally use for other stuff.
The use of a stereo zoom microscope or a magnifying glass/light or 3.25 diopter reading glasses is a big help.

On eBay there are many "surface mount surfboard" that allow you to mount a SMT and then treat it like a SIP so you can
use prototyping boards.

Another option is to make a ring counter out of transistors.
http://www.prc68.com/I/comp.shtml#Lamp
The beauty is that each transistor is toggling at 2/N of the clock frequency.

Mail_Attachment --
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html
Chris Albertson wrote:

check if you could get a 74AC161, which could be connected  to divide by
5 at 125 MHz see here
http://ecee.colorado.edu/~mcleod/pdfs/IADE/references/74AC161.pdf to be
sure to work at 125MHz run with 5,5 to 6V...

73
Alex

On 11/7/2014 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray wrote:

On the topic of SMD/SMT surfboards - has anyone seen one that has pad areas
designed for crystals or oscillators?    Most of the pads are for
resistors, and that might be fine for a crystal in the strictest sense -
just the crystal no resonator - but I have 4, 6, and 8 pad guys here that
just aren't spaced right for that.

If nobody has, will break out Eagle and make an attempt to create one.

NS

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Brooke Clarke brooke@pacific.net wrote:

Hi

The days of DIP parts are drawing to a close. Most of the DIP’s are now surplus and stocked by odd places here and here. The risk with many places (even major names) is that the part you get isn’t what you think it is. It may be a re-labeled something else pulled off a board in China with a blowtorch.

I think that in a lot of ways, you are better off with something in one of the larger SMD packages than a surplus / questionable DIP. The other half of the equation at higher frequencies is good layout. That sort of forces you in the direction of a pc board. Custom boards are now so crazy cheap that doing them for a one off makes sense.

Bob

As far as I'm concerned there are no more DIP parts.
However, let's not give up yet. Although
I am not a high volume manufacturer, I found
a nice way around it.

First, forget about prototyping by hand. That
ship has left.

So, I use OrCAD/Cadence (CIS/PCB Editor)
from the start in order to create
a proper project. This includes circuit and board.
OrCAD is fantastic in that you can have
revisions, simulation, etc, etc...

Then I use http://pcb123.com/ to make myself a
protoboard (or 4). Pretty cheap for
that volume. ~$50

Then to mount the components, I use
http://www.pnconline.com/

I can usually make 2-4 protoboards
for ~$200-300 with all the components.
Depends on count.

OK, so not exactly old school but
I have a very nice prototype. OrCad
also does amazing simulations
on diff pairs, and other cool things.

Ultimately, by thinking of these things ahead
of time and doing the design right I end up saving
considerable time.

On the prototypes, there is usually a few extra
SMD pots but that's ok.

Let's face it. DIPs are done. This is the way now
and we might as well get used to it.

Anyone here who needs help with OrCad,
just ask. I am sure there are a few experts here
as well.

Thanks for listening,

-George, N2FGX

On 11/07/2014 07:37 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

I do a lot of work with SMD parts and would be happy to solder up and
SOIC-16 version of the 74AC161, such as this one:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv633=35&k=74AC161&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

onto a dip break out board, such as this one:

https://www.adafruit.com/products/1207

Or, if you need something more complex, I do a lot of PCB design using OSH
Park https://www.oshpark.com and I'd be happy to whip up a simple PCB for
you.  It takes a few weeks to turn around a board, but it's a very
economical service ($5 a square inch for three copies.)

Wayne

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray jgray@zianet.com wrote:

Hi

If it’s a synthesizer and you can play with divide’s a bit - there are a number of divide by 10 preschoolers out there. They are not in DIP’s, but the packages are not that crazy. They also are rated to much higher frequencies. You would not have any issues with “almost works” at 125 MHz.

Bob

Looks like I can get the 74AC161 in DIP from Mouser. Thanks to everyone for
the suggestions. I still like DIP for prototyping on breadboards.

Joe Gray
W5JG

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Alex Pummer alex@pcscons.com wrote:

That part is limited to 95MHz over temp. Not suitable for commercial designs, but probably works just fine for a one-off..

Sent From iPhone

Joe,

This puppy can go to 166MHz over temp and has standard 100 mil pin spacing if you put it into a socket: ATF16V8C

I have not used PALs since 1992 but I used to be extremely fond of the 16R8 and 22V10 types back then.

This is a 16V8 that will do your divider in no time:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATF16V8C-5JX/ATF16V8C-5JX-ND/1027054

Best of all its available and only ~$3..

Said

Sent From iPhone

I'm surprised no one has suggested 74F161 or other F series. Power hungry, but rated to in excess of 100mhz, some vendors as high as 120mhz, at ordinary temps. I will have to look, but I might have a tube or two of them in the basement. I know I have most of the other 74F.

The 74F161 is only rated at 90MHz over temp (TI) and 120MHz or 100MHz (unclear) at 25C and then only as "typical" without any max freq being indicated at all in the datasheet (Fairchild).

So thats pretty much a no-go for any commercial product even at 'only' 100MHz..

Again for a one-off it may work, but not for a production unit that has to be guaranteed..

For a divide by 10 it would work if there is a 74AC74 type prescaler..

Bye,
Said

On Nov 7, 2014, at 21:19, Bob Bownes bownes@gmail.com wrote:

Sorry if I hijack the thread...

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 5:20 AM, Said Jackson via time-nuts
time-nuts@febo.com wrote:

can anyone suggest a (cheap if possible) programmer and software for
these modern PLD?

Thanks and best regards
Frank  IZ8DWF

Am 08.11.2014 um 09:46 schrieb Said Jackson via time-nuts:

The  x163 seems to be in better supply than the '161.

For example: < http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74LVC163.pdf >
At 3.0 - 3.6V  150 MHz guaranteed, 200 MHz typ.

I have done a fanout board for the Xilinx Coolrunner XC2C64 to 100 mil
square pads.
The small chip in the Background is the core voltage regulator, The plug
fits to
the Xilinx USB configuration cable. Enough to create 1pps from 100 MHz.

<
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4Bpcfouj8WH0shNGIyuVUtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

The other small boards are 100 MHz Crystek CVHD-950 locked to 10 MHz
using LVC163

Doubler 100 MHz ---> 200 MHz  13dBm in -> 13 dBm out using 2*BF862
push/push grounded gate

Doubler 200 MHz -> 400 MHz  13 dBm in 13 dBm out, HSMS-282F, SAW Filter
on 400 MHz, ERA-4 amplifier

All are week-enders, Layout printed on Laser printer to foil,
presensitized FR-4 0.5mm from Bungard, home etched.
The bottom side ist ground only.
I can use these snippets in my Altium Designer to combine them to larger
projects; the modules keep
their layout and need only to be handled as a block. I have collected
quite a block library over the years. :-)

regards, Gerhard

I would very, very, very much enjoy perusing that library, if you'd be as
kind ;-)

Particularly just a few basics for the Xilinx. I also have a few CVHD-950s
In need of some parenting!

On Saturday, November 8, 2014, Gerhard Hoffmann dk4xp@arcor.de wrote:

Francesco,

If you can handle tqfp packages then the Lattice parts are a worthy PAL replacement. The LC4032V clocks at up to 400MHz with 2.5ns delay, and that part at slower speed costs down to only $1.43 at mouser. Its a simple architecture with deterministic timing, kind of like a Super-PAL at half the price. I only miss an internal PLL to generate the <= 400MHz clock from a slow external clock input.

You can program it in my beloved ABEL instead if the dreaded CUPL..

Lattice sells a cheap USB programmer for these.

Bye,
Said

Sent From iPhone

As a dumb question does $15 for this item :

XC9572XL CPLD development board v1b

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/XC9572XL-CPLD-development-board-v1b-p-799.html

make any sense?  It's 5V tolerant and has 5ns pin to pin logic. JTAG  or
bus pirate programming.

Bob Darby

On 11/8/2014 10:53 AM, Neil Schroeder wrote: