The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC projects
in 2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted by Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular GSOC) each
projects - Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc mentor summit
because it participates to the fact that Google recognizes ESUG ang gives
slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my own time and
it takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all falvors!) is a
really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
-
Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly directed
against the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I hide or steal
money make me think that I should better quit. -
Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK ME for DOING
THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any -
People wants an answer fast, this conversation started yesterday and I am
spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the problems together if
any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end in bad mood
Dear all,
First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be
blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and misguided.
Facts namely are:
-
GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while
ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any report
back to GSoC mentors, -
GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for
paying extra projects [2][3].
Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is:
Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
------------------------------
13.000 USD
Expenses:
Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD
Difference: + 4.000 USD
If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't loose any
money but gain 4.000 USD.
Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to apologize to
you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin!
Janko
[1]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg
[2]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8
[3]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw
Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse:
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC
projects in 2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted by Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular GSOC) each
projects - Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc mentor
summit because it participates to the fact that Google recognizes ESUG
ang gives slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my own time
and it takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all falvors!)
is a really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
-
Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly directed
against the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I hide or
steal money make me think that I should better quit. -
Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK ME for
DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any -
People wants an answer fast, this conversation started yesterday and I
am spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the problems together
if any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end in bad mood
--
Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
I for one am grateful to Luc, Stéphane, and the rest of the ESUG volunteers
for all the work they do.
And I am grateful to the many people who are making Pharo the active free
Smalltalk it is.
I think Luc's advice "Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the
problems together if any" is good advice.
I would offer one small bit of advice, too. The communication on this
mailing list is predominantly in ENglish (for which I am also grateful!).
There are many people posting on it whose first language is not English.
There will certainly be poorly phrased statements and miscommunications, so
it is especially important that people have discussions before posting
things to the list for all to see.
From: Esug-list [mailto:esug-list-bounces@lists.esug.org] On Behalf Of Luc
Fabresse
Sent: February 9, 2014 08:27
To: Janko Mivšek; ESUG Mailing list; smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com
Cc: pharo-users; Pharo Development List; The general-purpose Squeak
developers list
Subject: [Esug-list] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC projects in
2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted by Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular GSOC) each
projects - Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc mentor summit
because it participates to the fact that Google recognizes ESUG ang gives
slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my own time and it
takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all falvors!) is a
really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
-
Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly directed against
the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I hide or steal
money make me think that I should better quit. -
Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK ME for DOING
THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any -
People wants an answer fast, this conversation started yesterday and I am
spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the problems together if
any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end in bad mood
Hi Janko,
I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4 extra-GSOC
but we paid only 3 because one student gave up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin).
So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate last
year BUT we were willing to spend it.
Luc
2014-02-09 Janko Mivšek janko.mivsek@eranova.si:
Dear all,
First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be
blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and misguided.
Facts namely are:
-
GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while
ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any report
back to GSoC mentors, -
GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for
paying extra projects [2][3].
Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is:
Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
------------------------------
13.000 USD
Expenses:
Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD
Difference: + 4.000 USD
If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't loose any
money but gain 4.000 USD.
Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to apologize to
you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin!
Janko
[1]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg
[2]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8
[3]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw
Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse:
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC
projects in 2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted by Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular GSOC) each
projects - Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc mentor
summit because it participates to the fact that Google recognizes ESUG
ang gives slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my own time
and it takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all falvors!)
is a really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
-
Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly directed
against the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I hide or
steal money make me think that I should better quit. -
Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK ME for
DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any -
People wants an answer fast, this conversation started yesterday and I
am spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the problems together
if any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end in bad mood
--
Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
Guys,
From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling in
the kindergarten.
All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward.
Backwards, there is a fair chance.
Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk.
Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to fight
over for an European org... (rolleyes).
Phil
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse luc.fabresse@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Janko,
I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4 extra-GSOC
but we paid only 3 because one student gave up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin).
So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate last
year BUT we were willing to spend it.
Luc
2014-02-09 Janko Mivšek janko.mivsek@eranova.si:
Dear all,
First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be
blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and misguided.
Facts namely are:
-
GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while
ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any report
back to GSoC mentors, -
GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for
paying extra projects [2][3].
Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is:
Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
------------------------------
13.000 USD
Expenses:
Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD
Difference: + 4.000 USD
If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't loose any
money but gain 4.000 USD.
Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to apologize to
you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin!
Janko
[1]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg
[2]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8
[3]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw
Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse:
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC
projects in 2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted by
Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular GSOC) each
projects - Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc mentor
summit because it participates to the fact that Google recognizes ESUG
ang gives slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my own time
and it takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all falvors!)
is a really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
-
Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly directed
against the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I hide or
steal money make me think that I should better quit. -
Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK ME for
DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any -
People wants an answer fast, this conversation started yesterday and I
am spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the problems together
if any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end in bad mood
--
Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
Phil,
This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because
it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases
blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. Which is
certainly bad for our community on long term.
Such matters need to be clarified and some conclusions to be made for a
community to preserve health and go on. Otherwise you are drowning into
murky waters more and more.
Best regards
Janko
Dne 10. 02. 2014 09:12, piše phil@highoctane.be:
Guys,
From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling in
the kindergarten.
All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward.
Backwards, there is a fair chance.
Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk.
Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to
fight over for an European org... (rolleyes).
Phil
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse@gmail.com
mailto:luc.fabresse@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Janko,
I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4
extra-GSOC but we paid only 3 because one student gave
up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin).
So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate
last year BUT we were willing to spend it.
Luc
2014-02-09 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si
<mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si>>:
Dear all,
First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be
blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and
misguided.
Facts namely are:
1. GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while
ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any
report
back to GSoC mentors,
2. GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for
paying extra projects [2][3].
Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is:
Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
------------------------------
13.000 USD
Expenses:
Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD
Difference: + 4.000 USD
If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't
loose any
money but gain 4.000 USD.
Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to
apologize to
you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin!
Janko
[1]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg
[2]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8
[3]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw
Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse:
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC
projects in 2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted
by Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and
Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular
GSOC) each
projects
- Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc
mentor
summit because it participates to the fact that Google
recognizes ESUG
ang gives slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my
*own* time
and it takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all
falvors!)
is a really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
- Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly
directed
against the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I
hide or
steal money make me think that I should better quit.
- Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would
have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK
ME for
DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any
- People wants an answer fast, this conversation started
yesterday and I
am spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the
problems together
if any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end
in bad mood
--
Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
--
Janko Mivšek
Svetovalec za informatiko
Eranova d.o.o.
Ljubljana, Slovenija
www.eranova.si
tel: 01 514 22 55
faks: 01 514 22 56
gsm: 031 674 565
Janko,
From what I know from good business practices is that what helps in keeping
things in order is good financial management and transparency.
So, the general ledger should be made accessible so things are clear on
that front.
For the Google story, upfront payment by ESUG while waiting for Google
money should have been registered with postings that reflected that (like
with an account on "expected revenue from Google") and balanced against it.
If one would spend money beyond the credit limits, there would be an issue.
So, escalation should be taking place to decide.
There seems to be a board, and the board ultimately decides on that front.
Which it apparently did.
Whoever is not happy with that decision will at one point accept it as this
is the top decision point. Or start a revolution, split, or whatever.
There are always things going on behind the curtain. Politics is a fact of
life. I you have a personal gripe with some members, you put the dead rat
on the table. Now is it time time speak up about who/what/why and discuss
that with them.
Now, the Smalltalk community appears to be fragmented, and the Pharo|Squeak
technology, even if very cool, is currently not helping me much on the
revenue making front. My bottom line isn't booking more that EUR 15K on
Pharo related sales. Not that I am not pushing. I'd love to be putting
decent bread on the table through Pharo.
FWIW, when it comes to current trends like Internet of Things, BigData
[Hadoop stuff], and Mobile, Smalltalk is at ground zero given the
ecosystem. So, fighting internally like that isn't getting us forward while
everything is swooshing past.
Phil
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Janko Mivšek janko.mivsek@eranova.siwrote:
Phil,
This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because
it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases
blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. Which is
certainly bad for our community on long term.
Such matters need to be clarified and some conclusions to be made for a
community to preserve health and go on. Otherwise you are drowning into
murky waters more and more.
Best regards
Janko
Dne 10. 02. 2014 09:12, piše phil@highoctane.be:
Guys,
From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling in
the kindergarten.
All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward.
Backwards, there is a fair chance.
Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk.
Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to
fight over for an European org... (rolleyes).
Phil
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse@gmail.com
mailto:luc.fabresse@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Janko,
I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4
extra-GSOC but we paid only 3 because one student gave
up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin).
So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate
last year BUT we were willing to spend it.
Luc
2014-02-09 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si
<mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si>>:
Dear all,
First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to
be
blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and
misguided.
Facts namely are:
1. GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1]
while
ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any
report
back to GSoC mentors,
2. GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool
for
paying extra projects [2][3].
Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is:
Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
------------------------------
13.000 USD
Expenses:
Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD
Difference: + 4.000 USD
If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't
loose any
money but gain 4.000 USD.
Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to
apologize to
you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin!
Janko
[1]
[2]
[3]
Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse:
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of
GSOC
projects in 2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted
by Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and
Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular
GSOC) each
projects
- Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc
and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc
mentor
summit because it participates to the fact that Google
recognizes ESUG
ang gives slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my
*own* time
and it takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all
falvors!)
is a really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money
status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
- Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly
directed
against the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I
hide or
steal money make me think that I should better quit.
- Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would
have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK
ME for
DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any
- People wants an answer fast, this conversation started
yesterday and I
am spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the
problems together
if any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end
in bad mood
--
Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
--
Janko Mivšek
Svetovalec za informatiko
Eranova d.o.o.
Ljubljana, Slovenija
www.eranova.si
tel: 01 514 22 55
faks: 01 514 22 56
gsm: 031 674 565
If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't loose any
money but gain 4.000 USD.
This is what I thought when luc told me that we lost money. Now he did not show to he ESUG board the
exact details because he did not crawl yet in all the bills.
Now if you check the old in the mailing-list I even said that there was no problem for 2000 Euros esug would cover that if this cover an extra student.
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Ducasse?= stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
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Subject: Re: [gsoc-mentors] Inform the students of four extra projects!
Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:34:36 +0200
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References: b29080aa-e7b3-4e5a-9e15-8a5166c8b50a@googlegroups.com 51A45CBF.10201@gmail.com fb3802c2-1be6-42bc-a12f-47bc528fa7b9@googlegroups.com f63d8d0d-28cf-438c-ad77-4bfdba8ed376@googlegroups.com 51A48D00.20701@gmail.com 0fa78595-f94f-4bdb-aa07-2a706d2b9cc1@googlegroups.com
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Guys
ESUG can solve that. we should avoid to spend time on that for 2000 =
Euros.
Stef
On May 28, 2013, at 1:06 PM, Janko Miv=9Aek janko.mivsek@gmail.com =
wrote:
So Janko I would be grateful that you STOP.
Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to apologize to
you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin!
Who are those guys?
Seriously you are getting really over.
Stef
Janko
[1]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg
[2]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8
[3]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw
Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse:
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC
projects in 2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted by Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular GSOC) each
projects - Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc mentor
summit because it participates to the fact that Google recognizes ESUG
ang gives slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my own time
and it takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all falvors!)
is a really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
-
Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly directed
against the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I hide or
steal money make me think that I should better quit. -
Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK ME for
DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any -
People wants an answer fast, this conversation started yesterday and I
am spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the problems together
if any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end in bad mood
--
Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
Paolo
I did not discuss yet with the ESUG board but we are sick of all this.
Can you really run the GSOC this year administratively because I think that ESUG should stop to be a bank for it?
I think that Janko is getting off. We cannot work with a person like that. I will make us lose too much energy.
Like that the mentors will be free to do whatever they want to do.
Stef
Dear all,
First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be
blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and misguided.
Facts namely are:
-
GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while
ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any report
back to GSoC mentors, -
GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for
paying extra projects [2][3].
Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is:
Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD
------------------------------
13.000 USD
Expenses:
Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD
Difference: + 4.000 USD
If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't loose any
money but gain 4.000 USD.
Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to apologize to
you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin!
Janko
[1]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg
[2]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8
[3]
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw
Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piše Luc Fabresse:
Hi all,
FACTS
As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer.
So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC
projects in 2013.
ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted by Google.
In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and Benjamin Arezki.
All in all we paid:
- 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular GSOC) each
projects - Serge trip to Mentor summit
And we received 5552EUR from Google
so yes we lost ~6582EUR
That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we
sponsorized 3.
I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc mentor
summit because it participates to the fact that Google recognizes ESUG
ang gives slots the next year.
It is alos important to note dates.
ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google.
It would not be possible to do it without ESUG.
FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY:
As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my own time
and it takes a lot!
I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all falvors!)
is a really great language that should be more widespread.
I also completely open to discussions.
The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status.
I can do errors too.
So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK!
I cannot admit that:
-
Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly directed
against the treasurer so me.
And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I hide or
steal money make me think that I should better quit. -
Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would have done a
mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK ME for
DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any -
People wants an answer fast, this conversation started yesterday and I
am spending my week-end with my kids
I am really fed up with this kind of attitude.
Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the problems together
if any.
But I think it will never happen...
#Luc
The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end in bad mood
--
Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
Il 10/02/2014 10:16, Stéphane Ducasse ha scritto:
Paolo
I did not discuss yet with the ESUG board but we are sick of all this.
Can you really run the GSOC this year administratively because I think
that ESUG should stop to be a bank for it?
I think that Janko is getting off. We cannot work with a person like
that. I will make us lose too much energy.
Like that the mentors will be free to do whatever they want to do.
Stef,
please calm down. I hope that you wanted to make this mail private.
Public mailing lists are not the right place for this language, much
less with such a wide crosspost.
I already mentioned that all I care about is to have students funded by
Google and working in Smalltalk. ESUG will get $500 per student, and
can use them to send more people to the mentor summit or whatever else
they prefer---I don't want to have anything to do with how ESUG spends
their GSoC money.
Paolo