Have enjoyed this educational thread on laptop selection  very much.

In my shopping for a laptop  I called several computer repair shops  to
ask what brands they like / dislike to work on and which were easy to get
parts for.

The opinions  varried as one would expect -- several comments were

consistant however accross the spectrum of my inquiries  which were :

  Compac  -- Easy to get parts for - easy to work on
       ( same for it's cousins sold under other brands
           such as Pro Star and Sager )

  IBM Thinkpads  - Arguably best screen  - not as
      robust as the Compacs but also easy to get parts
      for and to fix

    I would appreciate any comments from the professionals or techies on

these  opinions ...

                                               Ken
                                               MV Mrs. Hudson

-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Wyman [mailto:hal@halwyman.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:14 AM
To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Subject: Re: TWL: Re: Cruising communications

I have used Thinkpads for the last five years or so, and am on my fourth
one.  Obviously, they work great for me.  You can't go wrong with Compaq,
Dell, or Gateway IMO. <SNIP>

Regarding this whole laptop issue, about which  I am profoundly passionate!

Some Bona Fides first.  We've been in the computer biz for 14 years.  We
sell em, we fix em (Authorized Warranty for some brands) and we're Microsoft
Certified Solution Providers.  I bring this all up here because I want you
all to know that I'm not just winging it here.  I am not interested in
selling anything to you folks.  I will not expound a single brand, etc.  I
agree with and must conform with the TWL rules.  So this is just to let you
know that we know of what we speak.

There has been some good advice on this thread.  Most I agree with, a few
points I do not.  But my number 1 point of advice is------- DO NOT BUY A
CONSUMER LEVEL LAPTOP COMPUTER for navigation.  Actually, don't buy one for
anything except maybe the kids in school.  They are terrible.  We see inside
these things here.  Hey are slow, and dull and their screens are awful.
They are truly throw-away computers and my thinking is they should be thrown
away immediately <G>.

So how do you know the difference?  Unless you can compare side by side,
mostly price.  If your laptop is under about $1,500.00 it's a consumer
laptop.  If it's under $1,000.00, it's a throwaway.  My advice is buy a real
laptop.  Someone said IBM (we do not sell IBM).  In my opinion the IBM top
of the line ThinkPad laptop is the best laptop out there.  Its video screen
is startling better than most all of the other competitors.  But it is
expensive as in you get what you pay for folks.  A friend of mine just
bought a high end IBM and he shopped every website and mail-order source for
weeks.  He is a VERY frugal person.  He spent $3,800.00 with the few bells
and whistles he added.  But it is a beauty!

Panasonic, Dell, Toshiba, Gateway, etc. are good brand names and IN THE
BUSINESS CLASS offerings they have nice computers.  You should be looking at
PII or PIII processors speeds.  You want to get well ahead of the
obsolescence curve.  I don't recommend Compaq (and we do sell and fix
those), especially the Presario which is a consumer system.  They're just
too quirky for my liking but their top line business stuff sure is pretty.

The big difference in price usually is because of the quality components and
especially because of the higher quality display, and there is a big, big
difference between cheap and expensive displays, even though they have the
same specifications.  As you know, for navigation, screen displays are a
very crucial item.

The one point I disagree with from previous posts on this thread is the
cost.  Someone said $1,500.00, I disagree.  You should be looking at about
$2,500.00 for a decent (but still not the best) laptop.  About the only real
hope of getting the bright, clear, luminant, high contrast display required
for navigation is by comparing them, unless you go directly to the top of
the line in which case you get the best.

Ruggedness is important on most boats.  I have dropped our Panasonic on the
deck a few times and dropped stuff on top of it, banged it getting on and
off, splashed it with salt spray.  We don't have the bomb-proof model
either, just the "semi-ruggedized".  It just keeps ticking along.  Other
brands also offer ruggedization.  So consider your environment.  Normal
laptops do not like to be knocked about or washed <g>.

The other "gotcha" out there right now is the operating system.  As
Microsoft Certified folks we're all trained up on Windows 2000.  Windows
2000 Professional was built from the ground up for laptop computers as
compared to Windows NT which has an awkward relationship with most laptops.
So Windows 2000 is wonderful for laptop computers and in a year it will be
the only way to go, but.......  It isn't so wonderful right now, for a lot
of existing legacy applications.  It's only been out for 2 weeks after all.
It's going to take 6 months or more for applications to be checked and
approved for Windows 2000.  So, what to do?

As a computer geek / system integrator I would insist on Windows 2000
Professional on my new laptop, but I can spend 40 hours struggling with
incompatibility issues and call it fun.  This would not be my recommendation
to my customers.  I think Windows 98 SE is the best laptop OS to provide
trouble free operations with existing applications, including the various
navigation software packages.  I would not change to Windows 2000 until it
has been certified by the navigation software people and also when they have
re-written their navigation software to take advantage of Windows 2000 new
features.  So for now, maybe for another year, stick with Windows 98 SE.  I
don't like Windows 95 for laptops because it has a lot of problems with
modern communications strategies like RRAS and VPN.  Most laptop users want
these features.

Warranty is often overlooked.  Look for 1 to 3 year, 48 hour, fast
turnaround world-wide warranty too.  That usually separates the consumers
form the real laptops.

Advice from the cheap seat <g>
Joe & Debbie Engel
Marine Computer Services & JRE Computer Consulting, Inc.
MV Freda Fly - 1973 40' Tollycraft Tri-cabin
Portland, OR

Not a single word from anybody on MAC computers, laptop Powerbook G3, with a
14" screen, never breaks, never crash, never repair, and a very stable
system 8.6?

As a journalist, I carry it all day long in weird conditions, including
camping, sailing, motorcycling, use it sometimes 10 hours a day, 56 k modem
included, and can even plug it in my Nokia wireless telephone.

When you have a MAC, you also have a PC. MAC can run any PC software, using
something like Virtual PC. But it's slower.

I tried Compaq, Toshiba and IBM laptops. I felt really far from home

Usual stuff applies : I don't owe any of those companies. Too bad.

Bernard Veyron
Noirmoutier
Montreal, Canada

Joe;

As one professional to another, I say amen and thank you.

If half the folks who use notebooks aboard followed your advice, my tech
support guys would be twiddling their thumbs waiting for the phone to ring.

Your advice on Windows 2000 is extremely accurate.  All listees should read
it.

Dennis Mills

I have to agree with Joe Engel about buying quality laptops.  I spend years
traveling internationally, always carrying laptops. I saw many broken
systems because my travel mates wanted to go with the cheaper consumer
products. Broken hinges, cracked screens, crashed disks, failed keyboards,
and burnt bower supplies were far too common. The business-class machines
from Toshiba and Compaq were the sturdiest. Dells and most of the IBMs
failed under heavy duty loads. A broken screen can cost up to $1,000,
totally eliminating any cost savings. The company I worked for (a very large
producer of software) only bought Compaq and Toshiba laptops and then only
the largest and sturdiest. In Toshiba, that means the Tecra line.

Boats usage is not much different than international air travel, lots of
bumps, bad environmental conditions, and dependency upon the system,
particularly if it is your primary navigation tool.

I also feel that you should buy the fastest and largest possible, a 350mhz
laptop will be out of date very soon. I soon tired of the hassle of carrying
a laptop onboard and mounting it.  I installed a fixed base computer inside
of my lower helm. I was fortunate that it had enough space for a low profile
unit (not a mini-tower, but a true small box. 128kb memory is the minimum,
256 is better these days. Lots of disk, the difference between an 8gb and a
16gb disk is usually $50 or so. If you do have the space for a standard
computer in a nicely dry and warm locker AND have good smooth 110v AC power
from a good quality inverter, you can go with some of the Dell or Gateway
systems. Take a look at the new LCD displays, they save lots of space and
are quite readable in direct light. Be prepared to spend a $1,000 or so on a
unit.

The real issue is how to maintain good high-speed communications to the
'net. This is something that is still not readily available to boaters.
While "high-speed" is defined differently by nearly everyone, I would submit
that semi-serious web access requires a minimum of 28.8. Since most V.90
modems only give 30-40 kbps when dialing into a long distance access number,
we have to be content with that today.

In my working days, I designed global data networks and spent a good part of
my effort in trying to get good data networking access into places like
Zimbabwe and the middle of India. While that was often frustrating, I find
that trying to get good communications to our boat even more frustrating. We
must remember that most of the people who claim good land-based mobile
communications are still working with DOS-based applications and finely
tuned ones that work at 9600 baud. Simple e-mail works at this speed, but
too many of my friends have DSL or cable TV access and I am swamped with
large photos, sound bits, and all of the other trappings of a multi-media
environment.

We all should keep a keen eye on the new satellite ventures, but the failure
of the Motorola Iridium satellite phone system should remind us that leading
edge technologies also often have bleeding edges.

Regards,
Bob Miller
M/V Loon Song
55' HiStar
Anacortes, WA

PS: Windows 2000 will be great for new systems in about six months, as soon
as the application builders have finished device drivers and compatibility
testing. Be sure to test your old apps, since not all of them were built for
NT 5 (Windows 2000). New apps should work fine, but test, test, test. Look
on the web sites of your computer and software suppliers for status reports
regarding Win2K. Remember that most of the computer manufacturers are
releasing new BIOS loads for their older lines, which were designed for
Win95 and Win98. The Toshiba support site is quite good in describing what
is needed to update their laptops to support Windows 2000. The generic
device drivers in Win2K work for most cases, but the special feature that
your laptop designer added may only be supported in a device driver from
that company.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com
[mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Dennis Mills
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 1:13 PM
To: Joe Engel; trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Subject: Re: TWL: Re: Cruising communications

Joe;

As one professional to another, I say amen and thank you.

If half the folks who use notebooks aboard followed your advice, my tech
support guys would be twiddling their thumbs waiting for the phone to ring.

Your advice on Windows 2000 is extremely accurate.  All listees should read
it.

Dennis Mills