In message <1498648302.205602.1287785250803.JavaMail.root@sz0110a.emeryville.ca
.mail.comcast.net>, k6rtm@comcast.net writes:

Make backup-copies while they have no problems.

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Hi

Find pin compatible replacement EPROM's while you still can. They don't make all those small / slow / multiple supply / parts any more.  Saves building all sorts of strange adapter boards as well as re-shooting the memories.

Bob

On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:44 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:

I don't believe the parts are failing due to structural
problems, but rather are just leaking down their buried charge.

It should be quite possible to refresh them by erasing them and
reprogramming.

-Chuck Harris

Bob Camp wrote:

Don't forget to scare up the appropriate programmer. Those are getting hard to come by too.

On Oct 22, 2010, at 7:02 PM, Chuck Harris cfharris@erols.com wrote:

I save images at k4obbs website.
I will have to look at bluefeather see what thats about.
Thanks

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Chuck Harris cfharris@erols.com wrote:

Actually there are great sub $100 programmers really like the GQ usb
universal programmer. Handles all kinds of stuff and with an external supply
many of the quite old eproms. It does not handle the really strange ones
like I believe pmos.
But then what does anymore. Oh the goofy programmer in the basement.
Regards
Paul.

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:00 PM, bownes bownes@gmail.com wrote:

Hi

... and once you find that old programmer, a copy of the OS that will run it's support software. Don't seem to have many Windows for Workgroups machines running around here any more ....

Then you hope that there's at least one floppy drive in the universe that will load what you hope is the right software for the programmer.

I'm having a tough enough time finding a working example of a PIC programmer (with socket) running around the basement here. I have found two so far that I believe died a long time ago ....

Bob

On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:00 PM, bownes wrote:

Hi

There are a lot of the "goofy" rom's in the old gear. For what ever reason - they seemed to like the odd ones a lot ...

Bob

On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:06 PM, paul swed wrote:

Where is k4obb's website?

Dave W6TE
----- Original Message -----
From: paul swedmailto:paulswedb@gmail.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementmailto:time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Maintaining boatanchors (was Capacitor Failures)

I save images at k4obbs website.
I will have to look at bluefeather see what thats about.
Thanks

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.commailto:cfharris@erols.com> wrote:

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.commailto:time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

oooops
http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:25 PM, David Smith w6te@msn.com wrote:

I still have my old Advin U84.  It will program just about anything... except the
really old 3 voltage parts (1702...)

-Chuck Harris

bownes wrote:

I bought a True-USB PRO GQ-4X Willem Programmer last year from here:
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/LeftStart.asp?idCategory=27

You can look at the list of devices it programs online. For a current
list, just download and run the latest programming software. You don't
need the programmer to run the software. This thing does several old
chips, although for the ones that use a high programming voltage,
you'll need the external power adapter.

I originally had some issues on Windows XP with the programmer being
particular about USB ports, but that was solved with newer drivers. I
now use the programmer on Windows 7, 64-bit and have no trouble.

MCU Mall also sells quite a few adapters for TSOP, PLCC, etc. at
reasonable prices. I have a few and some day will buy others.

Joe Gray
W5JG

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Chuck Harris cfharris@erols.com wrote:

On 10/23/2010 01:02 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:

If you maintain EPROM programmers for them in workable shape. With this
I mean you need to ensure the complete path, not only the programmer
hardware but also any supporting software and interfaces such that you
can upload/download images, convert formats etc. etc.

Most of the 27xx EPROMs are not my main worries, but older and stranger
stuff. If a ROMed controller fails, what happends then? The 5334 has no
less than three microprocessors with EPROMs... where do I get a spare of
those?

Backup of EPROMs is a concern to take serious. I have been sloppy on my
side. It is not only for the measurement instruments, I have the same
issue with my musical instruments too.

Cheers,
Magnus

Hi Magnus,

I keep an old Toshiba 1963 486 based laptop in good working condition
to allow me to run my old ADVIN U84 DOS based programmer.  I check it
out from time-to-time.

I can't do much about the mask rom'd parts, though I don't think they
have any higher of a failure rate than any other IC.  The eprom based
controllers, can be a worry, but I can program most of them from the
1980's on... assuming they aren't protected.

There are a myriad of open source format converters available... things
that convert S to intel hex, etc... I seem to recall even writing some
of them...but that is a foggy memory by now.

I find my violins' EPROMS are very stable, and last centuries.

-Chuck Harris

Magnus Danielson wrote:

Hi Chuck,

On 10/23/2010 03:01 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:

Some of the ROMed variants can actually be read just like their EPROM
variants.

While ROMed parts does not have the EPROM trapped charge aspect to
failure mode, they can fail for any other reason and this is an issue.

Yes.

They don't have any, which helps.

Cheers,
Magnus

Hi

The issue with the mask parts is the same as pretty much all IC's. The packages aren't quite hermetic / the passivation isn't quite perfect / the top metal goes away over time.

Bob

On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:

If you are going to worry about things at that level, then it is not just the memory devices, you'll be worrying about all the programmable parts such as PALs, GALs, and other eplds. Then you are really looking fort some exotic programmers.

Ironically, I bought a standalone programmer many many moons ago to back up a set of 1702's that I was concerned about. A few months ago, while cleaning out the lab, I found a paper listing of the contents of said UVEPROMs. Not quite sure where the programmer went to. :)

On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: