Re: [time-nuts] Maintaining boatanchors (was Capacitor Failures)
On 10/23/2010 05:04 PM, bownes wrote:
If you are going to worry about things at that level, then it is not just the memory devices, you'll be worrying about all the programmable parts such as PALs, GALs, and other eplds. Then you are really looking fort some exotic programmers.
Who said I didn't worry about them? :)
If you want to go into paranoia mode, then there is all sorts of special
ICs to worry about. Any programable stuff is relatively easy, but what
if you don't have that peculiar gain-stage, low-jitter flip-flop or
whatever. Then you have a piece of nice old gear that just turned into a
doorstop. Until you find another and can make the transplant.
Caring about the gear so you don't kill the unobtainium components as
secondary casualty should maybe come as natural.
Cheers,
Magnus
Hi
Like it or not, most of this gear is interesting to us because we "knew it" when it was brand new. Either we had one or wanted one. As time marches on, the memory of most of this gear will fade. My guess is that a lot of these instruments will still be working fine long after anybody who's still alive wants to use them.
Yes indeed I do still have some test gear (and quite a bit of radio gear) that has tubes in it. Based on buying and selling a lot of it over the years, I'm guessing that the tube based test gear would not sell for a lot these days. The same principle (to big, to ugly, not cool enough, to weird) will continue to apply as time marches on.
I'm by no means saying any of that's right, or that I like the situation. It is indeed the way the world seems to work....
Bob
On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:25 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 10/23/2010 05:04 PM, bownes wrote:
If you are going to worry about things at that level, then it is not just the memory devices, you'll be worrying about all the programmable parts such as PALs, GALs, and other eplds. Then you are really looking fort some exotic programmers.
Who said I didn't worry about them? :)
If you want to go into paranoia mode, then there is all sorts of special ICs to worry about. Any programable stuff is relatively easy, but what if you don't have that peculiar gain-stage, low-jitter flip-flop or whatever. Then you have a piece of nice old gear that just turned into a doorstop. Until you find another and can make the transplant.
Caring about the gear so you don't kill the unobtainium components as secondary casualty should maybe come as natural.
Cheers,
Magnus
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The Advin U84 that I use will do all EPROMS, PALS, GALS, EPLD's, MACH, etc from the
late 1970's up through the mid 1990's... it craps out when the 5V devices fell out of
fashion, and 3.3V (and lower) became popular. The DAC's they used couldn't supply enough
resolution on the supply pins. Their newer machines will do the same up through current
devices, but I don't wish to shell out another $4K for the capability.
-Chuck Harris
bownes wrote:
If you are going to worry about things at that level, then it is not just the memory devices, you'll be worrying
about all the programmable parts such as PALs, GALs, and other eplds. Then you are really looking fort some exotic
programmers.
Ironically, I bought a standalone programmer many many moons ago to back up a set of 1702's that I was concerned
about. A few months ago, while cleaning out the lab, I found a paper listing of the contents of said UVEPROMs. Not
quite sure where the programmer went to. :)
On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Magnus Danielsonmagnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
That's KO4BB.com
Didier KO4BB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "David Smith" w6te@msn.com
Sender: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:25:33
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Maintaining boatanchors (was Capacitor Failures)
Where is k4obb's website?
Dave W6TE
----- Original Message -----
From: paul swedmailto:paulswedb@gmail.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementmailto:time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Maintaining boatanchors (was Capacitor Failures)
I save images at k4obbs website.
I will have to look at bluefeather see what thats about.
Thanks
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.commailto:cfharris@erols.com> wrote:
I don't believe the parts are failing due to structural
problems, but rather are just leaking down their buried charge.
It should be quite possible to refresh them by erasing them and
reprogramming.
-Chuck Harris
Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Find pin compatible replacement EPROM's while you still can. They don't
make all those small / slow / multiple supply
/ parts any more. Saves building all sorts of strange adapter boards as
well as re-shooting the memories.
Bob
On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:44 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message<
1498648302.205602.1287785250803.JavaMail.root@sz0110a.emeryville.camailto:1498648302.205602.1287785250803.JavaMail.root@sz0110a.emeryville.ca .
mail.comcast.net>,
k6rtm@comcast.netmailto:k6rtm@comcast.net writes:
What to do? Pop out the parts and rewrite them? Dump them to disk as
well?
Make backup-copies while they have no problems.
-- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORGmailto:phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD
committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can
adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Keep in mind that most programmers made in the last 25 years are microprocessor controlled, with their own firmware, so while you are at it, you might as well back those up too, but if it's your only programmer, you are stuck...
Didier
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: bownes bownes@gmail.com
Sender: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:04:37
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
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Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Maintaining boatanchors (was Capacitor Failures)
If you are going to worry about things at that level, then it is not just the memory devices, you'll be worrying about all the programmable parts such as PALs, GALs, and other eplds. Then you are really looking fort some exotic programmers.
Ironically, I bought a standalone programmer many many moons ago to back up a set of 1702's that I was concerned about. A few months ago, while cleaning out the lab, I found a paper listing of the contents of said UVEPROMs. Not quite sure where the programmer went to. :)
On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
Hi Chuck,
On 10/23/2010 03:01 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:
Hi Magnus,
I keep an old Toshiba 1963 486 based laptop in good working condition
to allow me to run my old ADVIN U84 DOS based programmer. I check it
out from time-to-time.
I can't do much about the mask rom'd parts, though I don't think they
have any higher of a failure rate than any other IC. The eprom based
controllers, can be a worry, but I can program most of them from the
1980's on... assuming they aren't protected.
Some of the ROMed variants can actually be read just like their EPROM variants.
While ROMed parts does not have the EPROM trapped charge aspect to failure mode, they can fail for any other reason and this is an issue.
There are a myriad of open source format converters available... things
that convert S to intel hex, etc... I seem to recall even writing some
of them...but that is a foggy memory by now.
Yes.
I find my violins' EPROMS are very stable, and last centuries.
They don't have any, which helps.
Cheers,
Magnus
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