Re: [time-nuts] CE Mark
In message E1KU5OJ-0007Ve-Fl@febo.com, "Arnold Tibus" writes:
I found some pages with explanations and extracted some sentences for rough
info, see yourself:
And you caught the most important part:
Burden on importers
In the agreement with the Council, the European Parliament underlines
that importers must place only compliant products on the Community
market. Before placing a product on the market importers must ensure
that [...]
The important thing in this clause is "placing a product on the market".
As long as you import things directly into EU, and never sell them
again, there is no requirement for CE marking.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In the agreement with the Council, the European Parliament underlines
that importers must place only compliant products on the Community
market. Before placing a product on the market importers must ensure
that [...]
The important thing in this clause is "placing a product on the market".
As long as you import things directly into EU, and never sell them
again, there is no requirement for CE marking.
Poul,
This is interesting. It means that I, as an American exporter selling directly
to end customers in the EU, do NOT need to CE mark my American made products.
-- David Forbes, Tucson AZ, Estados Unidos Americanos
In message 48A5E2CC.9020602@dakotacom.net, David Forbes writes:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In the agreement with the Council, the European Parliament underlines
that importers must place only compliant products on the Community
market. Before placing a product on the market importers must ensure
that [...]
The important thing in this clause is "placing a product on the market".
As long as you import things directly into EU, and never sell them
again, there is no requirement for CE marking.
Poul,
This is interesting. It means that I, as an American exporter selling directly
to end customers in the EU, do NOT need to CE mark my American made products.
Correct, provided if you don't otherwise end up "placing the product
on the market", ie: by advertising directly in the EU or in global
media targeting EU audiences (ie: in native language).
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
David Forbes wrote:
This is interesting. It means that I, as an American exporter selling directly
to end customers in the EU, do NOT need to CE mark my American made products.
I have bought several items from the US for personal use, and not for
resale, I don't remember any of them having a CE mark and no one stopped
me doing this.
Now, this might be because the trade for persoan imports of small
electronic items is not worth bothering about, or it could be that
there's no legal obligation on me to ensure that what I buy has a CE mark...
I also have a couple of Amateur bands handheld radios, bought second
hand in the UK, that are from China and widely available to import
through eBay.
However, the UK Government is always keen to make sure I pay the various
taxes levied on my purchases, so they must know that it is happening.
Dave (G0DJA)
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
Correct, provided if you don't otherwise end up "placing the product
on the market", ie: by advertising directly in the EU or in global
media targeting EU audiences (ie: in native language).
That's interesting, given that it is often said that the UK and the US
are two countries separated by a common language.
What about if a non-EU company sponsors a website, hosted in Europe, and
has their logo and products shown on the website, must their products be
CE marked even if the end users import the units from the non-EU supplier?
If so, that could impact on a lot of Amateur Radio, and other specialist
interest, forums...
Dave (G0DJA)
Poul-Henning,
you are propably fully right!
And you caught the most important part:
Burden on importers
In the agreement with the Council, the European Parliament underlines
that importers must place only compliant products on the Community
market. Before placing a product on the market importers must ensure
that [...]
The important thing in this clause is "placing a product on the market".
As long as you import things directly into EU, and never sell them
again, there is no requirement for CE marking.
Poul-Henning
when reading this:
[...] "For the purpose of law all importers are treated as producers. (Ref article 3 council directive (85/374/EEC) [!!!]
This is the reason that Importers in Europe are so much worried about CE Marking on the product they import because one failure of product in the market can ruin earnings of many years.
" To safeguard their interest the importer needs CE marking from a notified body.Without CE Mark- complainant is awarded the damage and manufacturer is liable without limit. With CE Mark- the injured person shall
be required to prove the damage, the defect and the causal relationship between defect and damage "[...]
If I do import and not sell to others, I should have no problems, I am
responsible for - myself (!),
I am as importer the 'producer' (a.m.) for my own needs if I see it right.
Nobody will ask (in case of single items or very small quantities for my own
needs), but I may have problems to claim for something in case of trouble
when the product is not safe...
[...) "CONCLUSION:
It is the sole responsibility of the Manufacturer/ Seller to identify the applicable Directives[...]
http://ce-marking.blogspot.com/2008/07/your-liability-when-you-ce-mark-your.html
regards,
Arnold, DK2WT
In message 48A5E93D.5030606@tiscali.co.uk, David Ackrill writes:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
Correct, provided if you don't otherwise end up "placing the product
on the market", ie: by advertising directly in the EU or in global
media targeting EU audiences (ie: in native language).
That's interesting, given that it is often said that the UK and the US
are two countries separated by a common language.
I can warmly recommend "The midatlantic companion" by David Frost.
What about if a non-EU company sponsors a website, hosted in Europe, and
has their logo and products shown on the website, must their products be
CE marked even if the end users import the units from the non-EU supplier?
Well, this is where you get to ask yourself if your lawyers are better
than their laywers.
As long as your product cannot kill anybody, the amount of liability
you can have if you just slap a CE mark onto your product is limited,
and that's all the testing what a lot of battery/low-voltage products
go through.
If so, that could impact on a lot of Amateur Radio, and other specialist
interest, forums...
I doubt it, proving that something is not CE compliant is a pretty
expensive process, and you can't sue somebody without evidence of
wrongdoing. Just "supecting it is not CE compliant" will get you
thrown out of a european court with a fine.
So before anybody gets in trouble, somebody has to get hurt enough
that tests are carried out.
Most of the enforcement cases I have heard about have been form
jealous competitors, which as I read it, also started this thread.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
David Ackrill wrote:
David Forbes wrote:
This is interesting. It means that I, as an American exporter selling directly
to end customers in the EU, do NOT need to CE mark my American made products.
I have bought several items from the US for personal use, and not for
resale, I don't remember any of them having a CE mark and no one stopped
me doing this.
Now, this might be because the trade for persoan imports of small
electronic items is not worth bothering about, or it could be that
there's no legal obligation on me to ensure that what I buy has a CE mark...
I also have a couple of Amateur bands handheld radios, bought second
hand in the UK, that are from China and widely available to import
through eBay.
However, the UK Government is always keen to make sure I pay the various
taxes levied on my purchases, so they must know that it is happening.
The thing is, when you buy a non CE-marked product and things get out of
hand. Like electrical safety or apparent violation of EMC rules or
something, you and not the manufacture takes the blame. So you are
interested in it even as a buyer.
If it is reasnoble to assume it would conform, the risc is lower.
For radio equipment, it needs to conform to the ETSI ENs as applicable,
which are part of a CE mark.
There has also surfaced a missconception about the testing aspect. For
some equpment testing is required before putting the product on the
market. For most others it is a thing which is wise to do before putting
the product on the market. You really need to check the details for each
product. For most of the equipment we discuss here, it is not required,
but if you don't have it you don't know if you comply and you can be in
big trouble, such as pulling the product of the market and stuff like that.
Cheers,
Magnus
David Ackrill wrote:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
Correct, provided if you don't otherwise end up "placing the product
on the market", ie: by advertising directly in the EU or in global
media targeting EU audiences (ie: in native language).
That's interesting, given that it is often said that the UK and the US
are two countries separated by a common language.
What about if a non-EU company sponsors a website, hosted in Europe, and
has their logo and products shown on the website, must their products be
CE marked even if the end users import the units from the non-EU supplier?
If so, that could impact on a lot of Amateur Radio, and other specialist
interest, forums...
It's part of marketing to EU customers, so... they are certainly in for
CE marketing. Infact, one of their competitors could get them caugt in
serious pain.
So, yes.
Cheers,
Magnus
Geez folks,
You've all been caught by a Troll.
What's this really got to do with time???
Someone in all the above said an importer is a producer. A producer can
produce. It's when they sell, things get interesting. Likewise an importer
can import. It's when they sell, things get interesting. As time-nuts with a
weird hobby we can import or produce. It's when we sell, things get
interesting. End of story.
For those of you who are professionals and selling your product, I'm sure
you've spoken to your lawyer.
Can we drop it now?
Please.
The troll is laughing at us.
Jim
2008/8/16 Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
David Ackrill wrote:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
Correct, provided if you don't otherwise end up "placing the product
on the market", ie: by advertising directly in the EU or in global
media targeting EU audiences (ie: in native language).
That's interesting, given that it is often said that the UK and the US
are two countries separated by a common language.
What about if a non-EU company sponsors a website, hosted in Europe, and
has their logo and products shown on the website, must their products be
CE marked even if the end users import the units from the non-EU
supplier?
If so, that could impact on a lot of Amateur Radio, and other specialist
interest, forums...
It's part of marketing to EU customers, so... they are certainly in for
CE marketing. Infact, one of their competitors could get them caugt in
serious pain.
So, yes.
Cheers,
Magnus
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.