The future of UTC
In Detroit, Michigan, when the auto manufacturing
companies discovered that having everyone's shift
starting at 8 AM caused huge traffic problems,
companies chose non-rounded times. For example,
one company starts their shift at 7:40 AM, another
starts at 7:25, and so on. This was done without
government intervention, just an intelligent choice.
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight,
why not advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
On 07/18/2011 11:49 AM, shalimr9@gmail.com wrote:
Jose,
In many countries, the government has no right to tell companies when they should be open or closed. However, they control when midnight is.
Didier KO4BB
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight,
why not advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
The amount of time to move the clock depends on how far north you
live. Days being even longer at high latitudes. I think one hour is
a compromise. There have been proposals to do what they call "double
daylight saving time"
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
I believe we had double daylight saving over here (UK) during WWII.
Rob K
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: 18 July 2011 5:17 PM
To: aa8k@comcast.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight, why not
advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
The amount of time to move the clock depends on how far north you live.
Days being even longer at high latitudes. I think one hour is a compromise.
There have been proposals to do what they call "double daylight saving time"
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
If you keep going farther from the equator, than it makes no sense
after a while. Above the Artic Circle, when you get 24hrs of daylight, what
is the need? And when you get no daylight in a day, should you wake up at
sunrise?
I just don't agree that the government has to step in and 'make
sluggards wake up early'. What if the sluggards and drunks would honk their
horns at 1am to get more people to party at the bars? :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:17 AM
To: aa8k@comcast.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight,
why not advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
The amount of time to move the clock depends on how far north you
live. Days being even longer at high latitudes. I think one hour is
a compromise. There have been proposals to do what they call "double
daylight saving time"
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Rob from memory it was referred to as "Double Summer Time" .....looking
at my very wet window ....we should be so lucky!! :-))
Alan G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Kimberley" rk@timing-consultants.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I believe we had double daylight saving over here (UK) during WWII.
Rob K
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: 18 July 2011 5:17 PM
To: aa8k@comcast.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net
wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight, why not
advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
The amount of time to move the clock depends on how far north you live.
Days being even longer at high latitudes. I think one hour is a
compromise.
There have been proposals to do what they call "double daylight saving
time"
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
I just don't see why we need to save daylight; don't we have enough already?
Is that not part of the cause of the alleged global warming?
And how does shifting the clock by an hour actually save any daylight?
OK, so to get slightly more serious, the best argument pushed here in Ohio
is that in the winter months, school aged kids aren't walking to school or
waiting for the bus in the dark. In the summer months, it isn't an issue. Of
course, DST isn't in effect in the winter months, so I still don't get it.
And why do they keep extending the DST season? We only have ST between mid
November to mid March now. It was once late April to early October.
Someone somewhere is making some money off of this scam.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
Tipp City, OH
EM79
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Jose Camara
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 1:05 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement';
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
If you keep going farther from the equator, than it makes no sense
after a while. Above the Artic Circle, when you get 24hrs of daylight,
what
is the need? And when you get no daylight in a day, should you wake up at
sunrise?
I just don't agree that the government has to step in and 'make
sluggards wake up early'. What if the sluggards and drunks would honk
their
horns at 1am to get more people to party at the bars? :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:17 AM
To: aa8k@comcast.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net
wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight,
why not advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
The amount of time to move the clock depends on how far north you
live. Days being even longer at high latitudes. I think one hour is
a compromise. There have been proposals to do what they call "double
daylight saving time"
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Alan,
I "de-anglicised" it for our cousins across the water!
:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Melia
Sent: 18 July 2011 6:15 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Hi Rob from memory it was referred to as "Double Summer Time" .....looking
at my very wet window ....we should be so lucky!! :-))
Alan G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Kimberley" rk@timing-consultants.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I believe we had double daylight saving over here (UK) during WWII.
Rob K
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: 18 July 2011 5:17 PM
To: aa8k@comcast.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net
wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight, why not
advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
The amount of time to move the clock depends on how far north you live.
Days being even longer at high latitudes. I think one hour is a
compromise.
There have been proposals to do what they call "double daylight saving
time"
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
On 18 Jul 2011, at 05:23 , Tony Finch wrote:
Jose Camara camaraq1@quantacorp.com wrote:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it,
just change business operating hours instead.
If you want to know why your suggestion doesn't work, David Prerau has
collected many many examples. http://www.seizethedaylight.com/
Yet most of the people on the planet live in a place where DST is
not observed now, and that includes people living as far north as 65 degrees
latitude and as far south as 55 degrees. Should they all be told this doesn't
work?
Dennis Ferguson
On Jul 18, 2011, at 3:02 PM, Tom Holmes wrote:
Someone somewhere is making some money off of this [DST] scam.
From an NPR interview with Michael Downing, author of "Spring Forward: The Annual Madness of Daylight Saving Time"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7779869
Mr. DOWNING: Well, because when we have an hour of sunlight after work, Americans tend to go shopping. The first and most persistent lobby for Daylight Saving in this country was the Chamber of Commerce, because they understood that if their department stores were lit up, people would be tempted by them.
In 1986, Congress gave us an extra month of Daylight Saving Time. That's when we went from six to seven months, which is the period we've been living with recently. In that congressional hearings, the golf industry alone - these are the industry estimates - told Congress one additional month of daylight saving was worth $200 million in additional sales of golf clubs and greens fees. The barbecue industry said it was worth $100 million in additional sales of grills and charcoal briquettes.
BLOCK: This may be kind of an urban legend, but I thought I had heard that one of the backers behind extending Daylight Saving Time into the beginning of November was the candy industry, and it all had to do with Halloween.
Mr. DOWNING: This is no kind of legend. This is the truth. For 25 years, candy-makers have wanted to get trick-or-treat covered by Daylight Saving, figuring that if children have an extra hour of daylight, they'll collect more candy. In fact, they went so far during the 1985 hearings on Daylight Saving as to put candy pumpkins on the seat of every senator, hoping to win a little favor.
Best regards,
-Steve
--
Steve Byan stevebyan@me.com
Littleton, MA 01460
BLOCK: This may be kind of an urban legend, but I thought I had heard that one of the backers behind extending Daylight Saving Time into the beginning of November was the candy industry, and it all had to do with Halloween.
Mr. DOWNING: This is no kind of legend. This is the truth. For 25 years, candy-makers have wanted to get trick-or-treat covered by Daylight Saving, figuring that if children have an extra hour of daylight, they'll collect more candy. In fact, they went so far during the 1985 hearings on Daylight Saving as to put candy pumpkins on the seat of every senator, hoping to win a little favor.
I would say it backfired.
At least here in Rhode Island, the extra daylight resulted in the compression of the trick or treating schedule, since all the little goblins and ghouls wanted to go out after dark (to better scare the homeowners and enjoy their glow in the dark costumes), but they also were expected home by 8pm (local).
Net result is less candy given out.
At least that has been my experience.
Proving you shouldn't tamper with time. Measure yes, tamper, no. :-)
Tom Frank, KA2CDK