Far out. This discussion is so not time-nuts. I'm going to vent here.
I'll do my best to be polite.

Daylight savings is more beneficial the further from the equator you
go. I love it and would never want it to go. As pointed out, this is a
local issue. Go lobby your local representative.

Metric time?  FFS. The US can't even talk SI with rest of the world
yet - even though their stupid measures are defined in terms of SI -
as they have been for decades. So don't even think about it.

Change the definition of the second?? Just stop right now. Go and
learn what the effects of changing the most accurately measured thing
we have before making silly comments like that!!!

Ok, that's all sorted, let's get to the point on leap seconds. I can
see both sides I really can. Making big changes years in the future is
bad. Remember Y2K?

I don't like the idea of letting DUT1 getting big. But it could be
bigger than it is now without huge issues.

I must admit Poul-Henning's idea of a 20 year advance notice is the
best idea I've heard so far. But I'd recommend 10 years. A good metric
number.

Don't get hung up on noon occurring at 12:00 - the equation of time
blows that right out.

I think stopping leap seconds is bad, and having them regularly is
good for practice - no Y2K problems.

So again, 10 years advance notice is a really nice solution.

/rant

On Saturday, 16 July 2011, Rob Kimberley rk@timing-consultants.com wrote:

In message 002001cc43c0$8dab3010$a9019030$@timing-consultants.com, "Rob Kimbe
rley" writes:

Call your local politician ?  DST is a national matter, so all you have
to do is convince your politicians[1].

[1] ... "That daylight savings time is an terrorist socialist muslim
plan to disrupt the precisous bodily fluids of real americans" and
they will be gone before you know it.  :-)

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Wouldn't trust any politician!
:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: 16 July 2011 6:04 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC

In message 002001cc43c0$8dab3010$a9019030$@timing-consultants.com, "Rob
Kimbe rley" writes:

Call your local politician ?  DST is a national matter, so all you have to
do is convince your politicians[1].

[1] ... "That daylight savings time is an terrorist socialist muslim plan to
disrupt the precisous bodily fluids of real americans" and they will be gone
before you know it.  :-)

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Jim:

"time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of

precise time and frequency measurement and related topics"

Until there is a more specific charter listing what one can post

about or not, or elected people with horned hats to judge what is noise and
what is signal, DST discussion should be perfectly acceptable. It is a
"related topic".

Even the jokes about people jumping on chairs, farting always west,

and it's effects on UTC are a small contribution, as others actually show
calculations that dismiss it before it becomes the next twitter mob
project...

Don't forget the "-nuts" part of the list!   :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Palfreyman
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 7:53 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC

Far out. This discussion is so not time-nuts. I'm going to vent here.
I'll do my best to be polite.

Daylight savings is more beneficial the further from the equator you
go. I love it and would never want it to go. As pointed out, this is a
local issue. Go lobby your local representative.

Metric time?  FFS. The US can't even talk SI with rest of the world
yet - even though their stupid measures are defined in terms of SI -
as they have been for decades. So don't even think about it.

Change the definition of the second?? Just stop right now. Go and
learn what the effects of changing the most accurately measured thing
we have before making silly comments like that!!!

Ok, that's all sorted, let's get to the point on leap seconds. I can
see both sides I really can. Making big changes years in the future is
bad. Remember Y2K?

I don't like the idea of letting DUT1 getting big. But it could be
bigger than it is now without huge issues.

I must admit Poul-Henning's idea of a 20 year advance notice is the
best idea I've heard so far. But I'd recommend 10 years. A good metric
number.

Don't get hung up on noon occurring at 12:00 - the equation of time
blows that right out.

I think stopping leap seconds is bad, and having them regularly is
good for practice - no Y2K problems.

So again, 10 years advance notice is a really nice solution.

/rant

On Saturday, 16 July 2011, Rob Kimberley rk@timing-consultants.com wrote:

any

it,

were

their

have

they

to

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Actually, in most countries not a "national" matter... but more typically a local (state/province/canton/prefecture) political matter.

For example there are US States that don't observe daylight savings time (a good example is Arizona... they just don't need more daytime hours there apparently), as there are in Australia.

Peter
K1PGV

On 17/07/11 16:21, Peter G. Viscarola wrote:

USA is not very representative in this respect.

Here in Europe, except for Russia and Denmark it is vairly easy to bring
in the county in one time-zone and that's why its been done on govrement
level.

Mainland Denmark (which in itself is a lot of islands) is one time-zone,
but Greenland and Færø-islands don't fit that time.

Actually, if you look at the map some countries is skewed in the time
compared to their geographical position.

Cheers,
Magnus

In Australia, Queensland is the only state that does not use daylight
savings time.
There reasons, "it upsets the cows feeding routine"

Maybe we can harness this cow feeding routine instead of an OCXO?

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Magnus Danielson
magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:

Jose Camara camaraq1@quantacorp.com wrote:

If you want to know why your suggestion doesn't work, David Prerau has
collected many many examples. http://www.seizethedaylight.com/

Tony.

f.anthony.n.finch  dot@dotat.at  http://dotat.at/
Fair Isle: Northerly or northeasterly 4 or 5 increasing 5 or 6, but 6 or 7 in
far west at first. Moderate or rough. Rain or showers. Moderate or poor.

Tony:

The book is available at my local library - I'll check it out with

an open mind, but I just can't see what would be the difference of telling
people they need to go to work 1hr earlier instead of 'fooling' them by
changing their clocks.

Wikipedia has a long article, too - it seems the original

justification (power savings) hasn't been realized.

Thanks,
Jose

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tony Finch
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 5:24 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC

Jose Camara camaraq1@quantacorp.com wrote:

it,

If you want to know why your suggestion doesn't work, David Prerau has
collected many many examples. http://www.seizethedaylight.com/

Tony.

f.anthony.n.finch  dot@dotat.at  http://dotat.at/
Fair Isle: Northerly or northeasterly 4 or 5 increasing 5 or 6, but 6 or 7
in
far west at first. Moderate or rough. Rain or showers. Moderate or poor.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Jose,

In many countries, the government has no right to tell companies when they should be open or closed. However, they control when midnight is.

Didier KO4BB

Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jose Camara" camaraq1@quantacorp.com
Sender: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:28:39
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'time-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC

Tony:

The book is available at my local library - I'll check it out with

an open mind, but I just can't see what would be the difference of telling
people they need to go to work 1hr earlier instead of 'fooling' them by
changing their clocks.

Wikipedia has a long article, too - it seems the original

justification (power savings) hasn't been realized.

Thanks,
Jose

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tony Finch
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 5:24 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC

Jose Camara camaraq1@quantacorp.com wrote:

it,

If you want to know why your suggestion doesn't work, David Prerau has
collected many many examples. http://www.seizethedaylight.com/

Tony.

f.anthony.n.finch  dot@dotat.at  http://dotat.at/
Fair Isle: Northerly or northeasterly 4 or 5 increasing 5 or 6, but 6 or 7
in
far west at first. Moderate or rough. Rain or showers. Moderate or poor.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.