The future of UTC
In message CAHZk5WcrvnY8Jv2xsWYCnBvQ3wXmRA_YezoFcJpufz9NFdKJ2A@mail.gmail.com
, Sanjeev Gupta writes:
PHK, in your proposal, the long term stability of "low, bounded DUT" would
be guaranteed?
Only guaranteed in the sense that I tacitly presume the geophysicisists
will schedule leap seconds with care, there is no numerical guarantees
involved, other than we will know leap seconds 20 years in advance.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it,
just change business operating hours instead. In summer you work 10 to 6
instead of 9 to 5 and we don't have to go around the house, car, etc.
changing clocks. And Congress doesn't have to change the dates the VCRs were
programmed to do automatically, leaving time for them to take care of
something more important...
I used to have pet tortoises that would always ignore DST, looking for their
food one hour earlier...
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Steve Rooke
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:24 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
, Steve Rooke writes:
Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens.
And if it's not needed?
It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it.
So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal
earth changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance,
when we have already seen significant variations in this.
If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit
more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next
couple of decades.
Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year
then they can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day,
worldwide let's change the clock regardless. It would make it much
more fun for all of us to watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that,
great idea.
Cheers,
Steve
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
incompetence.
and follow the instructions there.
--
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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In message 002101cc430a$c71cd030$55567090$@com, "Jose Camara" writes:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time?
Feel free to: That is under the control of your national government
and you can use that for whatever you want.
Leap-seconds on the other hand are global and controlled by only
the thinnest laquer of democratic control, so that is in no way
comparable.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
I agree on DST, I was very disappointed when Indiana joined the lemmings.
I'd take it one more step, and eliminate time zones. Everyone operates on UTC(x) So you get to work at 2100, and work till 0500.. I know my mom is up till 0700.
No matter where you are, you know what time it is, and no more silliness.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jose Camara camaraq1@quantacorp.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 9:18:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it,
just change business operating hours instead. In summer you work 10 to 6
instead of 9 to 5 and we don't have to go around the house, car, etc.
changing clocks. And Congress doesn't have to change the dates the VCRs were
programmed to do automatically, leaving time for them to take care of
something more important...
I used to have pet tortoises that would always ignore DST, looking for their
food one hour earlier...
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Steve Rooke
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:24 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
, Steve Rooke writes:
Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens.
And if it's not needed?
It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it.
So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal
earth changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance,
when we have already seen significant variations in this.
If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit
more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next
couple of decades.
Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year
then they can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day,
worldwide let's change the clock regardless. It would make it much
more fun for all of us to watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that,
great idea.
Cheers,
Steve
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
incompetence.
and follow the instructions there.
--
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Sorry for the prior email with no text.
If the world could agree on the dates when DST adjustments are applied (if
individual countries, states etc elect to make DST adjustments) and make any
needed leap second adjustments at the same time that would be a positive step
IMHO.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jose Camara camaraq1@quantacorp.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 9:18:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it,
just change business operating hours instead. In summer you work 10 to 6
instead of 9 to 5 and we don't have to go around the house, car, etc.
changing clocks. And Congress doesn't have to change the dates the VCRs were
programmed to do automatically, leaving time for them to take care of
something more important...
I used to have pet tortoises that would always ignore DST, looking for their
food one hour earlier...
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Steve Rooke
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:24 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
, Steve Rooke writes:
Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens.
And if it's not needed?
It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it.
So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal
earth changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance,
when we have already seen significant variations in this.
If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit
more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next
couple of decades.
Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year
then they can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day,
worldwide let's change the clock regardless. It would make it much
more fun for all of us to watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that,
great idea.
Cheers,
Steve
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
incompetence.
and follow the instructions there.
--
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
As long as you are going to re-educate everyone on Earth to use your
new system why not at the same time convert to metric time? The unit
of time should be the "day" (with length averaged over say, 1,000
years). But for most uses people would think in terms of "milli-days"
or "mD".
I hinted at the problem with any big change when I said "re-educate
everyone on Earth". I think we are stuck with what we have.
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:28 AM, David VanHorn
D.VanHorn@elec-solutions.com wrote:
I agree on DST, I was very disappointed when Indiana joined the lemmings.
I'd take it one more step, and eliminate time zones. Everyone operates on UTC(x) So you get to work at 2100, and work till 0500.. I know my mom is up till 0700.
No matter where you are, you know what time it is, and no more silliness.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
On 07/15/11 05:18 PM, Jose Camara wrote:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time?
I would agree with that.
I play chess on a chess server
The server runs at EST. Some team games are scheduled and the organisers insist
on using the server time. Normally my ofset from the server is 4 hours, but for
a couple of weeks it is 5 hours, as the UK and US implement DST on different days.
I've suggested the server switch to using GMT or UTC (same thing for the
practicalities of organising a chess game). The orgainsers tell me most
Americans don't understand GMT or UTC. Since more Americans play on the server
than anyone else, we have to suffer the consequences.
I really fail to see what DST achieves. People will do jobs at a time
appropriate for doing them.
DST is just one big pain.
Mark,
If the planet were not inclined 23 degrees this might make sense. But it turns out daylight times differ by latitude and season and hemisphere. So it is not surprising that nations, or even states within large nations, assume the right to set their own rules of local time.
/tvb
On Jul 15, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Mark Spencer mspencer12345@yahoo.ca wrote:
Sorry for the prior email with no text.
If the world could agree on the dates when DST adjustments are applied (if
individual countries, states etc elect to make DST adjustments) and make any
needed leap second adjustments at the same time that would be a positive step
IMHO.
Daylight savings seems to be a bit archaic especially with modern flexible
working practices. Why not fit the working day around the clock & seasons,
rather than try to correct things twice a year?
Rob Kimberley
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Mark Spencer
Sent: 15 July 2011 5:51 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Sorry for the prior email with no text.
If the world could agree on the dates when DST adjustments are applied (if
individual countries, states etc elect to make DST adjustments) and make any
needed leap second adjustments at the same time that would be a positive
step IMHO.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jose Camara camaraq1@quantacorp.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 9:18:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it,
just change business operating hours instead. In summer you work 10 to 6
instead of 9 to 5 and we don't have to go around the house, car, etc.
changing clocks. And Congress doesn't have to change the dates the VCRs were
programmed to do automatically, leaving time for them to take care of
something more important...
I used to have pet tortoises that would always ignore DST, looking for their
food one hour earlier...
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Steve Rooke
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:24 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
, Steve Rooke writes:
Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens.
And if it's not needed?
It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it.
So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal earth
changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance, when we have
already seen significant variations in this.
If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit more
around and they will have to catch up with it over the next couple of
decades.
Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year then they
can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day, worldwide let's
change the clock regardless. It would make it much more fun for all of us to
watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that, great idea.
Cheers,
Steve
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG
| TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
incompetence.
and follow the instructions there.
--
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.