CG Boarding
I know that everybody will hate this but here goes.
Boaters have NO Constitutional protection against searches.
Any police officer, border patrolman, customs officer, or Coast Guard
member may board your boat and search it to their hearts content any time,
anywhere.
The Supreme Court has ruled on this more than once.
The CG Auxiliary are NOT included in this list.
Eric Thompson
S/V Procrastinator
South San Francisco
capteric36@sbcglobal.net
If you think it is hard on us, imagine what a pain it is for drug smugglers
and terrorists.
So much for freedom. These boats are homes to liveaboards. Imagine the local
police stopping by and wandering through your land home. Police aren't even
supposed to search cars without reasonable cause.
Marc
From: capteric36@sbcglobal.net
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:40:29 -0700
Subject: T&T: CG Boarding
I know that everybody will hate this but here goes.
Boaters have NO Constitutional protection against searches.
Any police officer, border patrolman, customs officer, or Coast Guard
member may board your boat and search it to their hearts content any time,
anywhere.
The Supreme Court has ruled on this more than once.
The CG Auxiliary are NOT included in this list.
Eric Thompson
S/V Procrastinator
South San Francisco
capteric36@sbcglobal.net
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering
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Cars have less protection than homes because they are mobile. The police do
not need reasonable cause, they need only probable cause to search a car and
usually do not need a warrant. It is called the Carrol doctrine, after a
famous Supreme Court case of that name that was decided in 1925.
Alan
Tampa
Lawyer by day; boater by weekend (when I am lucky)
-------Original Message-------
From: marc papi
Date: 4/3/2009 5:51:50 PM
To: capteric36@sbcglobal.net; trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: CG Boarding
So much for freedom. These boats are homes to liveaboards. Imagine the local
police stopping by and wandering through your land home. Police aren't even
supposed to search cars without reasonable cause.
Marc
If you think it is hard on us, imagine what a pain it is for drug
smugglers
and terrorists.
OMG! You're so right! We need to get rid of that sticky 4th Amendment* so we
can hunt those bad guys in their land homes. Us good guys can certainly put
up with the inconvenience of midnight knocks on the door.
But to keep this on the topic of 'Trawler', why is it that the Supremes find
it OK to do unWarranted searches of water homes, but not OK to do the same
to land homes?
-- Jim
*The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.
As I understand it, the authority to perform a warrantless search of a
vessel dates back to Prohibition (Volstead Act February 18, 1922) and gave
the power to the USCG and US Customs (whose powers are almost unlimited.)
Obviously it wasn't contemplated that they would search liveaboard "homes."
Please note that Customs can perform destructive searches boring into
bulkheads looking for hidden compartments. We don't hear much about it
anymore, but that used to be a popular practice off Florida years ago. Now,
they seem to be going for the hard targets - the real drug smugglers.
Ron Rogers
-----Original Message-----
From Jim Ague
But to keep this on the topic of 'Trawler', why is it that the Supremes find
it OK to do unWarranted searches of water homes, but not OK to do the same
to land homes?
-- Jim
*The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.
Jim Ague ague@usa.net writes:
But to keep this on the topic of 'Trawler', why is it that the Supremes find
it OK to do unWarranted searches of water homes, but not OK to do the same
to land homes?
Well, the quick answer is because that's what the government decided about
220 years ago. From a recent Supreme Court decision
(http://supreme.justia.com/us/462/579/index.html):
"Although no Act of Congress can authorize a violation of the Constitution,
in 1790, in a lineal ancestor to B' 1581(a), the First Congress clearly
authorized the suspicionless boarding of vessels by Government officers,
reflecting its view that such boardings are not contrary to the Fourth
Amendment, which was promulgated by the same Congress. "
It sort of makes sense, because the main sources of government revenue in
those days were duties and excise taxes. They wanted the ability to check
ships for smuggling without having to get a warrant, which was rather
difficult in the days before radio. Hence the name of the early Coast Guard
ships, "Revenue Cutters". The other thing that is very interesting is that
the US Coast Guard has the right to board any US flagged vessel anywhere in
the world without a warrant.
P.S. I'm not American, nor am I a lawyer. But I do like trivia :-)
Scott Welch
905 762 6101
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden
I'm willing to put up with the annoyance of a boarding on occasion for the
privilege of having my butt pulled out of the icy drink when I really need
it.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I work for the Coast Guard (as a
civilian), so I have a very real appreciation for the courage and sacrifice
these guys go through to serve this country. I'm not the chest thumping,
flag waving type, but I suggest that you temper your indignation at the
possibility of a boarding with the awareness that these are the guys who
will answer your Mayday call on the water, and risk their lives to save
yours. Don't blame the Coasties for the many rotten jobs Congress gives
them.
On more than one occasion I've gone into an Alaskan bar with my active duty
colleagues, and when some crusty old commercial fisherman found out we were
Coast Guard we drank for free. Need I say more?
Bob Deering
Juneau, Alaska
I also admire the courage they have and the sacrifice the Coast Guard makebut
firemen also have those same qualities and they don't search your house
withoutfirst smelling smoke, or being called. A person who lives aboard a boat
deserves the same protectionsas a person who lives in a brick house. Maybe
it's time to address Congress.
Marc
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:29:28 -0800
From: deering@ak.net
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: CG Boarding
I'm willing to put up with the annoyance of a boarding on occasion for the
privilege of having my butt pulled out of the icy drink when I really need
it.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I work for the Coast Guard (as a
civilian), so I have a very real appreciation for the courage and sacrifice
these guys go through to serve this country. I'm not the chest thumping,
flag waving type, but I suggest that you temper your indignation at the
possibility of a boarding with the awareness that these are the guys who
will answer your Mayday call on the water, and risk their lives to save
yours. Don't blame the Coasties for the many rotten jobs Congress gives
them.
On more than one occasion I've gone into an Alaskan bar with my active duty
colleagues, and when some crusty old commercial fisherman found out we were
Coast Guard we drank for free. Need I say more?
Bob Deering
Juneau, Alaska
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Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World
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The absence of the rule of law is chaos. Anyone want to live al'a "Mad
Max"?
The blend of criminal and administrative laws can distort the perceptions of
those being checked. As mentioned before, boats are mobile conveyances
whether the "home" or not, e.g. r.v.s licensed and operated on the public
travel ways. These regulatory "requirements" to enjoy the "privilege" of
operating on the public travel ways have involved from the unacceptable
behavior of some(certainly not me I've never done anything wrong car or
boat) of our fellow travelers. Concomitant with regulations come the
requirement of enforcement. Without enforcement these rules are quickly
ignored and thereby do nothing to mitigate the unacceptable behavior that
motivated them in the first place. Hence boarding (road side
sobriety/license checks, etc.) for purely administrative (i.e. regulatory)
purposes evolved.
Folks, simply put "...we have met the enemy and they are us..." Pardon
the sadly butchered quote to make the point that "we the people" create the
situations that require these intrusions. So don't blame those we pay to
protect us from ourselves.
Joe
"Carolyn Ann" GH N-37
Snip:
"...I also admire the courage they have and the sacrifice the Coast Guard
makebut
firemen also have those same qualities and they don't search your house
withoutfirst smelling smoke, or being called. A person who lives aboard a
boat
deserves the same protectionsas a person who lives in a brick house. Maybe
it's time to address Congress.
Marc..."