MSK is a kind of continuous phase differentially coded PSK in

     Obviously a steady negative phase shift is what is produced by

     Effectively a QPSK (multi-arm Costas type) tracking loop should

www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor*900A*.pdf On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:49 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > David > Yes I have seen various comments and documents describing MSK that way. > But have to say the tracor 900 does not use that method to establish a > reference. > Its a few opamps perhaps one side acting as a phase delay summing with the > original and hitting a BPF. all of that running at 100Hz center frequency. > Through this magic the 900 could use NAA as a phase tracking reference. > Its as if its a classic phase doubler. The documentation almost speaks to > that. > Its seriously simple. > Regards > Paul. > WB8TSL > > > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:31 PM, David I. Emery <die@dieconsulting.com> > wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:09:23PM -0400, paul swed wrote: >> >> > I had discounted it because of the lack of info and totally unclear how >> to >> > get rid of the FSK. MSK is FSK just with a very narrow shift. Also the >> > effects of the fsk on the carrier. Hmmm glad I am typing this. >> > It may be that the mark or the space is indeed exactly the true carrier >> and >> > that op amp circuit is notching out the shifted carrier. I will bet >> thats >> > the trick! >> >> >> MSK is a kind of continuous phase differentially coded PSK in >> which the carrier phase smoothly shifts either EXACTLY plus 90 degrees >> or EXACTLY minus 90 degrees in EXACTLY one symbol time - in the MSK >> variety of PSK the transmitted carrier phase never stays the same as the >> it was the last symbol time. When transmitting steady mark there are a >> series of these shifts plus 90 degrees (hi frequency mark) one after the >> other, and when transmitting steady space there is a series of minus 90 >> degree shifts. >> >> Obviously a steady negative phase shift is what is produced by >> a signal below a center "carrier" frequency and a steady positive >> phase shift by one above that frequency. Thus the isomorphism with >> filtered FSK. >> >> Effectively a QPSK (multi-arm Costas type) tracking loop should >> be able to track a MSK signal just as if it was a filtered QPSK signal >> with only 90 degree and minus 90 phase shifts each symbol time and >> generate >> a phase continuous recovered carrier. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, >> Mass 02493 >> "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten >> 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole >> - in >> celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now >> either." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > >

     MSK is a kind of continuous phase differentially coded PSK in

     Obviously a steady negative phase shift is what is produced by

     Effectively a QPSK (multi-arm Costas type) tracking loop should

Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop trick. "The action of the MSK card doubles the phase shift"..... So it is the classic double the frequency stateless carrier recovery. that may drop phase due to noise. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:52 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor*900A*.pdf > > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:49 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > >> David >> Yes I have seen various comments and documents describing MSK that way. >> But have to say the tracor 900 does not use that method to establish a >> reference. >> Its a few opamps perhaps one side acting as a phase delay summing with >> the original and hitting a BPF. all of that running at 100Hz center >> frequency. >> Through this magic the 900 could use NAA as a phase tracking reference. >> Its as if its a classic phase doubler. The documentation almost speaks to >> that. >> Its seriously simple. >> Regards >> Paul. >> WB8TSL >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:31 PM, David I. Emery <die@dieconsulting.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:09:23PM -0400, paul swed wrote: >>> >>> > I had discounted it because of the lack of info and totally unclear >>> how to >>> > get rid of the FSK. MSK is FSK just with a very narrow shift. Also the >>> > effects of the fsk on the carrier. Hmmm glad I am typing this. >>> > It may be that the mark or the space is indeed exactly the true >>> carrier and >>> > that op amp circuit is notching out the shifted carrier. I will bet >>> thats >>> > the trick! >>> >>> >>> MSK is a kind of continuous phase differentially coded PSK in >>> which the carrier phase smoothly shifts either EXACTLY plus 90 degrees >>> or EXACTLY minus 90 degrees in EXACTLY one symbol time - in the MSK >>> variety of PSK the transmitted carrier phase never stays the same as the >>> it was the last symbol time. When transmitting steady mark there are a >>> series of these shifts plus 90 degrees (hi frequency mark) one after the >>> other, and when transmitting steady space there is a series of minus 90 >>> degree shifts. >>> >>> Obviously a steady negative phase shift is what is produced by >>> a signal below a center "carrier" frequency and a steady positive >>> phase shift by one above that frequency. Thus the isomorphism with >>> filtered FSK. >>> >>> Effectively a QPSK (multi-arm Costas type) tracking loop should >>> be able to track a MSK signal just as if it was a filtered QPSK signal >>> with only 90 degree and minus 90 phase shifts each symbol time and >>> generate >>> a phase continuous recovered carrier. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, >>> Mass 02493 >>> "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten >>> 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole >>> - in >>> celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now >>> either." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >

Needless to say one can track the recovered carrier with a very

I believe you found that simply using it to clock a flip flop

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 04:56:01PM -0400, paul swed wrote: > Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop > trick. > "The action of the MSK card doubles the phase shift"..... > So it is the classic double the frequency stateless carrier recovery. that > may drop phase due to noise. Needless to say one can track the recovered carrier with a very narrow loop which will not slip in phase easily during a fade. I believe you found that simply using it to clock a flip flop wasn't reliable... but a narrow carrier tracking loop tracking it would be... -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."

That PDF is returning a 404 for me at the moment...

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 04:56:01PM -0400, paul swed wrote: > Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop > trick. That PDF is returning a 404 for me at the moment... -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."

     That PDF is returning a 404 for me at the moment...

Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a 2.5MB file http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf. Try his main page http://www.glkinst.com I did see the info there also. Browsers we luv'em. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:20 PM, David I. Emery <die@dieconsulting.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 04:56:01PM -0400, paul swed wrote: > > Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop > > trick. > > That PDF is returning a 404 for me at the moment... > > > > -- > Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, > Mass 02493 > "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten > 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - > in > celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now > either." > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

     That PDF is returning a 404 for me at the moment...

URL ok from here -pete On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:25 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a > 2.5MB file > http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf. > Try his main page http://www.glkinst.com > I did see the info there also. > Browsers we luv'em. > Regards > Paul. > WB8TSL > > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:20 PM, David I. Emery <die@dieconsulting.com> > wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 04:56:01PM -0400, paul swed wrote: > > > Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas > loop > > > trick. > > > > That PDF is returning a 404 for me at the moment... > > > > > > > > -- > > Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, > > Mass 02493 > > "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten > > 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole > - > > in > > celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now > > either." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

The text of the original post had "*"s in the URL... which

Partly pilot error here...

Works OK without the "*"s

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:39:07PM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote: > URL ok from here The text of the original post had "*"s in the URL... which didn't work so well... Partly pilot error here... Works OK without the "*"s > > -pete -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."

     The text of the original post had "*"s in the URL... which

     Partly pilot error here...

     Works OK without the "*"s

Whats interesting is I had never heard of the 900 till I started looking at NAA and msk. Regards Paul. On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:43 PM, David I. Emery <die@dieconsulting.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:39:07PM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote: > > URL ok from here > > The text of the original post had "*"s in the URL... which > didn't work so well... > > Partly pilot error here... > > Works OK without the "*"s > > > > > > > -pete > > > -- > Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, > Mass 02493 > "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten > 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - > in > celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now > either." > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

     The text of the original post had "*"s in the URL... which

     Partly pilot error here...

     Works OK without the "*"s

Oh Ebay has one for sale for the person that just needs one. Todays buy now $1693 plus shipping. There you go a deal a day. I think not. regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:48 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > Whats interesting is I had never heard of the 900 till I started looking > at NAA and msk. > Regards > Paul. > > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:43 PM, David I. Emery <die@dieconsulting.com> > wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:39:07PM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote: >> > URL ok from here >> >> The text of the original post had "*"s in the URL... which >> didn't work so well... >> >> Partly pilot error here... >> >> Works OK without the "*"s >> >> >> >> > >> > -pete >> >> >> -- >> Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, >> Mass 02493 >> "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten >> 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole >> - in >> celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now >> either." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > >

     The text of the original post had "*"s in the URL... which

     Partly pilot error here...

     Works OK without the "*"s

Did check NAA and its banging into Boston. Had to put 40 db anttenuator inline to make it reasonable. Using the wwvb antenna. Most likely would do just fine with 6 ft of wire. Ok only had 4 ft of wire and its there. Could really use 10-12ft. :-) So maybe my fillings won't pick it up. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:51 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > Oh Ebay has one for sale for the person that just needs one. Todays buy > now $1693 plus shipping. > There you go a deal a day. I think not. > regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:48 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Whats interesting is I had never heard of the 900 till I started looking >> at NAA and msk. >> Regards >> Paul. >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:43 PM, David I. Emery <die@dieconsulting.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:39:07PM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote: >>> > URL ok from here >>> >>> The text of the original post had "*"s in the URL... which >>> didn't work so well... >>> >>> Partly pilot error here... >>> >>> Works OK without the "*"s >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> > -pete >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, >>> Mass 02493 >>> "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten >>> 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole >>> - in >>> celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now >>> either." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >