Empathy List Archives

HP

Hugh Preddy

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 7:01 AM

When starting my two Detroit's V6 engines cold I usually give them half
throttle but notice when they first start I get a lot of black exhaust.
Could this be caused by too much unburned fuel. When starting engines
how much throttle do fellows give your engines?

Thanks, Hugh - B.C. Canada

When starting my two Detroit's V6 engines cold I usually give them half throttle but notice when they first start I get a lot of black exhaust. Could this be caused by too much unburned fuel. When starting engines how much throttle do fellows give your engines? Thanks, Hugh - B.C. Canada

RA

Rudy and Jill

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 7:58 AM

Yes, I believe that you are correct, it's unburned fuel. If I remember the
mechanics correctly, it is caused by the difference between what the amount of
the fuel that the govenor is set to deliever and what the load on the engine
requires. Once the engine starts to run, then the govenor controls the fuel
flow more accurately. The same principle as when you quickly advance the
throttle, and you get a blast of black smoke; once the load and the govenor
balances betwix themselves, then the fuel delivery is better balanced to the
load.

Now, stay tuned to see if someone can tell you if that is true or not.

Rudy
Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl

When starting my two Detroit's V6 engines cold I usually give them half
throttle but notice when they first start I get a lot of black exhaust.
Could this be caused by too much unburned fuel. When starting engines
how much throttle do fellows give your engines?

Yes, I believe that you are correct, it's unburned fuel. If I remember the mechanics correctly, it is caused by the difference between what the amount of the fuel that the govenor is set to deliever and what the load on the engine requires. Once the engine starts to run, then the govenor controls the fuel flow more accurately. The same principle as when you quickly advance the throttle, and you get a blast of black smoke; once the load and the govenor balances betwix themselves, then the fuel delivery is better balanced to the load. Now, stay tuned to see if someone can tell you if that is true or not. Rudy Briney Bug, Panama City, Fl When starting my two Detroit's V6 engines cold I usually give them half throttle but notice when they first start I get a lot of black exhaust. Could this be caused by too much unburned fuel. When starting engines how much throttle do fellows give your engines?

RC

R C Smith Jr

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 12:20 PM

On 12/29/09 2:01 AM, "Hugh Preddy" preddy@sfu.ca wrote:

When starting my two Detroit's V6 engines cold I usually give them half
throttle but notice when they first start I get a lot of black exhaust.
Could this be caused by too much unburned fuel. When starting engines
how much throttle do fellows give your engines?

Hugh,

This fits in nicely with the thread about starting the engines from the ER.
By standing right over my 4-71s, I can give them the minimum amount of fuel
to start them cold. During summer months, they start at idle, even if cold.

Unburned fuel gives a white smoke, which happens whenever I start
cold...gone in a couple minutes. Not sure why you get black smoke.

I had a buddy with 6-92s and they were a devil to start cold, requiring
beaucoup throttle.

Bob

Robert Calhoun Smith, Jr.
MV MARY KATHRYN
1977 Hatteras 58 LRC
Lying Sunset Bay Marina
Stuart, Florida

On 12/29/09 2:01 AM, "Hugh Preddy" <preddy@sfu.ca> wrote: > When starting my two Detroit's V6 engines cold I usually give them half > throttle but notice when they first start I get a lot of black exhaust. > Could this be caused by too much unburned fuel. When starting engines > how much throttle do fellows give your engines? Hugh, This fits in nicely with the thread about starting the engines from the ER. By standing right over my 4-71s, I can give them the minimum amount of fuel to start them cold. During summer months, they start at idle, even if cold. Unburned fuel gives a white smoke, which happens whenever I start cold...gone in a couple minutes. Not sure why you get black smoke. I had a buddy with 6-92s and they were a devil to start cold, requiring beaucoup throttle. Bob _________________________ Robert Calhoun Smith, Jr. MV MARY KATHRYN 1977 Hatteras 58 LRC Lying Sunset Bay Marina Stuart, Florida

JS

Jeffrey Siegel

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 1:58 PM

When starting engines
how much throttle do fellows give your engines?

I think I have an odd start-up procedure because everyone else seems
to do it differently. When I see most boats start up in a marina,
they start removing lines within a minute or two. I've never
understood this.

What I do:

Start engines in idle.
Physically check water outflow on the exhausts - I know how much
water feels right and I've come to like getting my hands wet.
Put out the flag. This is more of a signal to Karen that all doors
should be latched and all dogs must be onboard and in their harnesses.
Bring engines to 900 RPM.
Wait until the water temperature comes off the pin - about 15
minutes or more.
Do a complete engine and engine room check.
Untie the lines and leave.

I usually give myself 30 minutes from the time of starting up until
we're finally underway.

---===
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53RPH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine

www.activecaptain.com
The Interactive Cruising Guidebook

Our cruising blog:
http://takingpaws.com

Our live tracks:
http://tinyurl.com/ActiveCaptainSPOT

..

> When starting engines > how much throttle do fellows give your engines? > I think I have an odd start-up procedure because everyone else seems to do it differently. When I see most boats start up in a marina, they start removing lines within a minute or two. I've never understood this. What I do: - Start engines in idle. - Physically check water outflow on the exhausts - I know how much water feels right and I've come to like getting my hands wet. - Put out the flag. This is more of a signal to Karen that all doors should be latched and all dogs must be onboard and in their harnesses. - Bring engines to 900 RPM. - Wait until the water temperature comes off the pin - about 15 minutes or more. - Do a complete engine and engine room check. - Untie the lines and leave. I usually give myself 30 minutes from the time of starting up until we're finally underway. ==================================== Jeffrey Siegel M/V aCappella DeFever 53RPH W1ACA/WDB4350 Castine, Maine www.activecaptain.com The Interactive Cruising Guidebook Our cruising blog: http://takingpaws.com Our live tracks: http://tinyurl.com/ActiveCaptainSPOT ..

DM

David Marchand

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 2:50 PM

Hugh:

For some diesels, maybe most, it doesn't matter where you put the throttle
to start. The governer is set to rich, starting mode no matter where the
throttle is set. After it starts up then the throttle setting governs rpm.

David

Hugh: For some diesels, maybe most, it doesn't matter where you put the throttle to start. The governer is set to rich, starting mode no matter where the throttle is set. After it starts up then the throttle setting governs rpm. David

RC

R C Smith Jr

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 2:54 PM

I forgot to add that I turn over cold engines a few times with the kill
switch engaged to get the oil flowing before ignition. I forget who or what
advised this, but it sounds reasonable doesn't it?

Bob

Robert Calhoun Smith Jr in DC
M/V MARY KATHRYN
1977 Hatteras 58 LRC
Lying Sunset Bay Marina
Stuart, FL

I forgot to add that I turn over cold engines a few times with the kill switch engaged to get the oil flowing before ignition. I forget who or what advised this, but it sounds reasonable doesn't it? Bob ________________ Robert Calhoun Smith Jr in DC M/V MARY KATHRYN 1977 Hatteras 58 LRC Lying Sunset Bay Marina Stuart, FL

C

Cole

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:05 PM

I have always started my engines at idle with no problems noted, and as
another poster noted, It's one of the first things I do to allow some
warm up before getting underway. My old boats 6V53 Detroits started
almost the second you hit the switch and purred away, well roared away,
they weren't exactly quiet. I never saw any smoke from those, black our
white the whole time I owned that boat. My current TAMD60C Volvo's will
"lope" pretty badly until they warm up so i give them a little bit of
throttle once I see oil pressure building so they'll smooth out. They
also produce a fair amount of white smoke until fully warm. The previous
owner spent a lot of time and effort trying to stop this white smoke
with no success, so he just gave up I have never pursued a fix, as the
emgines run perfect, Ive given them their regular maintenance for the 3
years I've owned the boat and they've given me back perfect service,
though I admit, I love those old Detroits. I saw a quote some where when
I was researching engines, probably on boatdiesel.com that said, "a
Detroit will still get you home with a whole lot of s*** wrong with it"

I have always started my engines at idle with no problems noted, and as another poster noted, It's one of the first things I do to allow some warm up before getting underway. My old boats 6V53 Detroits started almost the second you hit the switch and purred away, well roared away, they weren't exactly quiet. I never saw any smoke from those, black our white the whole time I owned that boat. My current TAMD60C Volvo's will "lope" pretty badly until they warm up so i give them a little bit of throttle once I see oil pressure building so they'll smooth out. They also produce a fair amount of white smoke until fully warm. The previous owner spent a lot of time and effort trying to stop this white smoke with no success, so he just gave up I have never pursued a fix, as the emgines run perfect, Ive given them their regular maintenance for the 3 years I've owned the boat and they've given me back perfect service, though I admit, I love those old Detroits. I saw a quote some where when I was researching engines, probably on boatdiesel.com that said, "a Detroit will still get you home with a whole lot of s*** wrong with it"

HQ

Henry Quigley

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:07 PM

----- Original Message ----
When starting engines
how much throttle do fellows give your engines?

Response:

I have a 2008 model Cummins QSB 5.9Liter with all electronic controls so it may not relate to your situation but I start in idle.

Henry
M/Y Mary M
North Pacific 43

----- Original Message ---- When starting engines how much throttle do fellows give your engines? Response: I have a 2008 model Cummins QSB 5.9Liter with all electronic controls so it may not relate to your situation but I start in idle. Henry M/Y Mary M North Pacific 43

SH

Scott H.E. Welch

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:55 PM

R C Smith Jr rcsmith@garrett-smith.com writes:

This fits in nicely with the thread about starting the engines from the ER.
By standing right over my 4-71s, I can give them the minimum amount of fuel
to start them cold. During summer months, they start at idle, even if cold.

Unburned fuel gives a white smoke, which happens whenever I start
cold...gone in a couple minutes. Not sure why you get black smoke.

I had a buddy with 6-92s and they were a devil to start cold, requiring
beaucoup throttle.

The governors on older diesels (particularly Detroits) were/are pretty basic
mechanical devices. I find with my 6-110 that if I adjust my idle for 600 RPM
warm, when the engine is cold it has to be cranked for quite a while (say 30
seconds) to start, and even then it often dies at least once from fuel
starvation. However with more fuel it fires after just a few revolutions and
settles down quickly. I am planning on adding a small handwheel to adjust the
idle for cold starts, because I do not have any throttle control down in the
engine room where I start the engine. BTW if I adjust for 600 RPM cold idle,
the warm idle is very high (950 RPM or so). Given the fact that 1350 RPM
equals cruise speed of 8 knots, 950 RPM is not exactly what you want while
docking :-)

Although I like to moan about modern electronically controlled engines, they
really have improved things like this. I have a Golf TDI diesel and at fires
right up at any temperature down to -25. So all of you with engines built
after 1990 or so can ignore this discussion.

Scott Welch

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden

R C Smith Jr <rcsmith@garrett-smith.com> writes: >This fits in nicely with the thread about starting the engines from the ER. >By standing right over my 4-71s, I can give them the minimum amount of fuel >to start them cold. During summer months, they start at idle, even if cold. > >Unburned fuel gives a white smoke, which happens whenever I start >cold...gone in a couple minutes. Not sure why you get black smoke. > >I had a buddy with 6-92s and they were a devil to start cold, requiring >beaucoup throttle. The governors on older diesels (particularly Detroits) were/are pretty basic mechanical devices. I find with my 6-110 that if I adjust my idle for 600 RPM warm, when the engine is cold it has to be cranked for quite a while (say 30 seconds) to start, and even then it often dies at least once from fuel starvation. However with more fuel it fires after just a few revolutions and settles down quickly. I am planning on adding a small handwheel to adjust the idle for cold starts, because I do not have any throttle control down in the engine room where I start the engine. BTW if I adjust for 600 RPM cold idle, the warm idle is very high (950 RPM or so). Given the fact that 1350 RPM equals cruise speed of 8 knots, 950 RPM is not exactly what you want while docking :-) Although I like to moan about modern electronically controlled engines, they really have improved things like this. I have a Golf TDI diesel and at fires right up at any temperature down to -25. So all of you with engines built after 1990 or so can ignore this discussion. Scott Welch "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out." - John Wooden

JB

Jim Boyd

Tue, Dec 29, 2009 6:16 PM

Being a novice boater and having taken numerous USPS courses and excellent
hands on training from an experienced captain I tend to closely watch the
comings and goings of every boat in whatever marina or anchorage I happen to
be in. I'm always anxious to learn something. However, some of my first
observations have been the lack of knowledge of many boaters of not only
starting the boat, but of even the most basic boating skills including the
most basic - securing the boat to the dock. A walk down any marina dock
will reveal dozens of curious methods of attaching a line to a cleat.
Several lines are scattered carelessly along the dock with some even hanging
in the water (along with their electric lines).

I can't count the number of captains that starts their boat while the mate
casts off the lines and the boat is leaving the dock as the last line is
being hauled aboard. Total time from engine start to leaving the dock is
less than two minutes - almost as if they measure their competence by how
quickly they get underway.

Last year I spent some time in Morehead City and was entertained by numerous
fishing boats that gather there for the big tuna hunt. Many of these
cowboys come racing back to the dock - spin the boat at a fairly high rate
of speed and quickly back into the slip and shut down the engine. As a
newbie
I asked my instructor about this (I guess I was also a bit jealous) and he
replied that many of those cowboys are just hired hands and don't care about
the boat.

Reading these posts regarding engine warm up time - running the engine at
max rpm for several minutes before ending your trip and allowing the engines
to cool down for a few minutes has confirmed my trainers teachings.
Naturally he cannot teach me everything I need to know about boats and
boating so I spend many joyous hours reading this post and going into the
archives for research on several issues.

Being new to boating, this list has been a bible of knowledge (sorry about
the religious reference) and I thank you, one and all, for sharing your
knowledge and experiences (and for your patience).

Happy Holidays

Jim Boyd
Lark

-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Jeffrey Siegel
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:59 AM
To: Hugh Preddy
Cc: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Starting Diesel Engines

When starting engines
how much throttle do fellows give your engines?

I think I have an odd start-up procedure because everyone else seems
to do it differently. When I see most boats start up in a marina,
they start removing lines within a minute or two. I've never
understood this.

What I do:

Start engines in idle.
Physically check water outflow on the exhausts - I know how much
water feels right and I've come to like getting my hands wet.
Put out the flag. This is more of a signal to Karen that all doors
should be latched and all dogs must be onboard and in their harnesses.
Bring engines to 900 RPM.
Wait until the water temperature comes off the pin - about 15
minutes or more.
Do a complete engine and engine room check.
Untie the lines and leave.

I usually give myself 30 minutes from the time of starting up until
we're finally underway.

---===
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53RPH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine

www.activecaptain.com
The Interactive Cruising Guidebook

Our cruising blog:
http://takingpaws.com

Our live tracks:
http://tinyurl.com/ActiveCaptainSPOT

..

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Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

Being a novice boater and having taken numerous USPS courses and excellent hands on training from an experienced captain I tend to closely watch the comings and goings of every boat in whatever marina or anchorage I happen to be in. I'm always anxious to learn something. However, some of my first observations have been the lack of knowledge of many boaters of not only starting the boat, but of even the most basic boating skills including the most basic - securing the boat to the dock. A walk down any marina dock will reveal dozens of curious methods of attaching a line to a cleat. Several lines are scattered carelessly along the dock with some even hanging in the water (along with their electric lines). I can't count the number of captains that starts their boat while the mate casts off the lines and the boat is leaving the dock as the last line is being hauled aboard. Total time from engine start to leaving the dock is less than two minutes - almost as if they measure their competence by how quickly they get underway. Last year I spent some time in Morehead City and was entertained by numerous fishing boats that gather there for the big tuna hunt. Many of these cowboys come racing back to the dock - spin the boat at a fairly high rate of speed and quickly back into the slip and shut down the engine. As a newbie I asked my instructor about this (I guess I was also a bit jealous) and he replied that many of those cowboys are just hired hands and don't care about the boat. Reading these posts regarding engine warm up time - running the engine at max rpm for several minutes before ending your trip and allowing the engines to cool down for a few minutes has confirmed my trainers teachings. Naturally he cannot teach me everything I need to know about boats and boating so I spend many joyous hours reading this post and going into the archives for research on several issues. Being new to boating, this list has been a bible of knowledge (sorry about the religious reference) and I thank you, one and all, for sharing your knowledge and experiences (and for your patience). Happy Holidays Jim Boyd Lark -----Original Message----- From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com [mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Siegel Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:59 AM To: Hugh Preddy Cc: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com Subject: Re: T&T: Starting Diesel Engines > When starting engines > how much throttle do fellows give your engines? > I think I have an odd start-up procedure because everyone else seems to do it differently. When I see most boats start up in a marina, they start removing lines within a minute or two. I've never understood this. What I do: - Start engines in idle. - Physically check water outflow on the exhausts - I know how much water feels right and I've come to like getting my hands wet. - Put out the flag. This is more of a signal to Karen that all doors should be latched and all dogs must be onboard and in their harnesses. - Bring engines to 900 RPM. - Wait until the water temperature comes off the pin - about 15 minutes or more. - Do a complete engine and engine room check. - Untie the lines and leave. I usually give myself 30 minutes from the time of starting up until we're finally underway. ==================================== Jeffrey Siegel M/V aCappella DeFever 53RPH W1ACA/WDB4350 Castine, Maine www.activecaptain.com The Interactive Cruising Guidebook Our cruising blog: http://takingpaws.com Our live tracks: http://tinyurl.com/ActiveCaptainSPOT .. _______________________________________________ http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/trawlers-and-trawlering Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

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Starting Diesel Engines