Re: [time-nuts] Best phase detector / mixer for 100MHz?
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
I got this guy to add cross correlation to his FFT software suite:
http://www.hpw-works.com/ however I have not built hardware to try it. He
has a 30 day trial and its not expensive for what it is, $300. I would use
it with an ESI Juli@ card http://www.esi-audio.com/products/julia/ ($150 or
less on eBay or elsewhere) since you can be pretty sure it won't do
something to mess with the measurement and it runs at 192 KHz sample rate
quite well. Around $450 for a cross correlation analyzer. Or you can go
shopping for an old FFT with the capability and potential service nightmare.
Thanks a lot guys for all the input!
The nist articles was a very interesting read. I have ordered the
minicircuits ZRPD-1 and will try to build the 2N2222A mixer to to see how
far that will take it. I probably also will build a low noise jfet preamp
to see if that will reduce the noise. But I probably have to go to build
myself a crosscorrelation system to be able to <-180dBc with confidence.
Is
there any cheap way into cross correlation measurement, using high quality
soundcard for example? Or do I have to buy one of these big old expensive
dual FFT analyzers?
/Anders
On 11/26/12 10:11 AM, Demian Martin wrote:
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
Isn't Marki making the old WJ mixers? That seems to be what someone
told me a few years ago: they basically have all the tooling and
designs, etc.
Jim Lux wrote:
On 11/26/12 10:11 AM, Demian Martin wrote:
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they
directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
Isn't Marki making the old WJ mixers? That seems to be what someone
told me a few years ago: they basically have all the tooling and
designs, etc.
That's interesting, because MaCom Technology Solutions seems to
be making WJ models as well. A few years back, there was another
company (I think the name started with an S) that seemed to have
inherited the WJ line. The company currently called WJ has
nothing to do with these mixers at all.
Rick
Jim Lux wrote:
On 11/26/12 10:11 AM, Demian Martin wrote:
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they
directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
Isn't Marki making the old WJ mixers? That seems to be what someone
told me a few years ago: they basically have all the tooling and
designs, etc.
That's interesting, because MaCom Technology Solutions seems to
be making WJ models as well. A few years back, there was another
company (I think the name started with an S) that seemed to have
inherited the WJ line. The company currently called WJ has
nothing to do with these mixers at all.
Rick
Did you see this information from Mini Circuits on WJ mixer replacements?
http://217.34.103.131/pdfs/Surface-Mount%20Mixers%20Are%20WJ%20Replacements.pdf
--
Björn
Demian Martin wrote:
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
I got this guy to add cross correlation to his FFT software suite:
http://www.hpw-works.com/ however I have not built hardware to try it. He
has a 30 day trial and its not expensive for what it is, $300.
There's no evidence of a cross power spectrum function in this suite.
One needs to be able to average at least 10,000 cross power spectra for
some applications.
Bruce
Bruce Griffiths schrieb:
Demian Martin wrote:
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they
directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
I got this guy to add cross correlation to his FFT software suite:
http://www.hpw-works.com/ however I have not built hardware to try
it. He
has a 30 day trial and its not expensive for what it is, $300.
There's no evidence of a cross power spectrum function in this suite.
One needs to be able to average at least 10,000 cross power spectra
for some applications.
Bruce
Here is one that does cross spectrum and more: http://www.sigview.com/
A while ago I tried it with a Xonar Essence XT sound card and the
results looked quite promising.
Then I got a 3562A to get to 100 kHz (don't follow me there! These can
be challenging to fix if not impossible. PAL's and other unobtainable
'field programmables' appear to die faster than anything else in that
boxes. Finally, I needed three of them to get one working unit...)
Adrian
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Adrian wrote:
Bruce Griffiths schrieb:
Demian Martin wrote:
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they
directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
I got this guy to add cross correlation to his FFT software suite:
http://www.hpw-works.com/ however I have not built hardware to try
it. He
has a 30 day trial and its not expensive for what it is, $300.
There's no evidence of a cross power spectrum function in this suite.
One needs to be able to average at least 10,000 cross power spectra
for some applications.
Bruce
Here is one that does cross spectrum and more: http://www.sigview.com/
A while ago I tried it with a Xonar Essence XT sound card and the
results looked quite promising.
Then I got a 3562A to get to 100 kHz (don't follow me there! These can
be challenging to fix if not impossible. PAL's and other unobtainable
'field programmables' appear to die faster than anything else in that
boxes. Finally, I needed three of them to get one working unit...)
Adrian
Tried that as well, how does one get a log y scale on the cross spectrum
plot?
Bruce
Bruce Griffiths schrieb:
Adrian wrote:
Bruce Griffiths schrieb:
Demian Martin wrote:
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they
directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
I got this guy to add cross correlation to his FFT software suite:
http://www.hpw-works.com/ however I have not built hardware to try
it. He
has a 30 day trial and its not expensive for what it is, $300.
There's no evidence of a cross power spectrum function in this suite.
One needs to be able to average at least 10,000 cross power spectra
for some applications.
Bruce
Here is one that does cross spectrum and more: http://www.sigview.com/
A while ago I tried it with a Xonar Essence XT sound card and the
results looked quite promising.
Then I got a 3562A to get to 100 kHz (don't follow me there! These
can be challenging to fix if not impossible. PAL's and other
unobtainable 'field programmables' appear to die faster than anything
else in that boxes. Finally, I needed three of them to get one
working unit...)
Adrian
Tried that as well, how does one get a log y scale on the cross
spectrum plot?
Bruce
With Sigview? I'm sorry my trial version has long expired and even after
installing the latest version it's now requiring a license key...
Adrian
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Bruce,
There's no evidence of a cross power spectrum function in this suite.
One needs to be able to average at least 10,000 cross power spectra for some
applications.
In the PSD (power density) & PSP (power spectrum) there are cross power and cross
power complex average implemented (selectable using the spectrum channel mixer)!
Additional to this you may apply / add averaging of the resulting spectrum or use
additional peak hold.
Average of 10'000 cross points is a large count and often seen on 1-4k sample size.
Better in my opinion is to use a higher sample size 32k-64k and then less averaging
is required.
Just download the evaluation version with fully feature set.
HpW
Adrian wrote:
Bruce Griffiths schrieb:
Adrian wrote:
Bruce Griffiths schrieb:
Demian Martin wrote:
I asked Wenzel about mixers for phase noise measurement and they
directed me
to Marki Microwave as what they use:
http://www.markimicrowave.com/2770/Mixers.aspx I have not
obtained or
tested any myself but it's a pretty solid recommendation I think.
I got this guy to add cross correlation to his FFT software suite:
http://www.hpw-works.com/ however I have not built hardware to
try it. He
has a 30 day trial and its not expensive for what it is, $300.
There's no evidence of a cross power spectrum function in this suite.
One needs to be able to average at least 10,000 cross power spectra
for some applications.
Bruce
Here is one that does cross spectrum and more: http://www.sigview.com/
A while ago I tried it with a Xonar Essence XT sound card and the
results looked quite promising.
Then I got a 3562A to get to 100 kHz (don't follow me there! These
can be challenging to fix if not impossible. PAL's and other
unobtainable 'field programmables' appear to die faster than
anything else in that boxes. Finally, I needed three of them to get
one working unit...)
Adrian
Tried that as well, how does one get a log y scale on the cross
spectrum plot?
Bruce
With Sigview? I'm sorry my trial version has long expired and even
after installing the latest version it's now requiring a license key...
Adrian
The help file states that the cross power spectrum is the product of the
individual spectra - this is only correct if the individual spectra are
real.
Bruce