Emergency tiller
Patrick,
Love your tip.
"I also installed an old sailboaters trick. I have a hole glassed in
through the aft end of my rudder that I can pass a line through. I can
knot the line on both sides of the hole and pass the line through port
and starboard hawse pipes for an additional backup system."
This is a classic reminder of going back to basics that we should all
take on board in this age of so called sophistication.
As this subject has drawn so little comment, I am leaning towards the
notion that very few of us have had to use their emergency steering when
going to "war" on the high seas, let alone practice drills.
I lost my steering doing 8 kts rounding North Head at Sydney Harbor,
Australia. We were heading rock wards very quickly. The crew on the helm
(my fault ultimately) shaved the corner into the harbor too hard under
manual steering and the bolts on a poorly designed steering collar had
loosened, completely losing control. The rudder post is square, the
tiller collar is pipe bent, and is not square. This has now been
modified so flat surfaces on the collar now conform to the square rudder
post. My pucker experience led me to backing up with a new system for
any eventuality.
Your idea proposed is even more basic because it takes the control
opportunity back to the big flap we call a rudder.
Dennis Connor talks about 7 deg. I think he was talking about weather
helm on a well balanced boat up wind close hauled.
Cheers!
Peter
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Today's Topics:
-
Fw: Communications along the way (Patrick Gerety)
-
Re: Emergency tiller (Patrick Gerety)
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:45:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick Gerety alohaboat@yahoo.com
Subject: [PUP] Fw: Communications along the way
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
<passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com>
Message-ID: 764319.73602.qm@web35908.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I sent Scott an email direct a few days ago. His response is so
interesting, I thought the whole List might benefit from the
information.
I would be interested in what other cruisers on the List use.
Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
La Paz, MX
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Scott E Bulger alanui@ocens.net
To: Patrick Gerety alohaboat@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Nicaragua to Costa Rica via Gulf of Papagallo
How do you contact your weather router while enroute?
Sat Phone and he will email info if needed.
How do you keep in contact with PUP? Through SSB email package?
Fleet 33 on my boat, or internet cafe on shore. Occasionally I can get
a free wifi from the shore, but it's the exception rather than the rule.
I use Ocens email with compression and either iscribe or outlook as pop3
client. Works great, but it's very expensive. Phone calls are $2/min
and data is $4.00/megaBIT, not byte. I've had bills as high as $200 for
very light use. Every PUP email is precious if I reply by Satphone!
Scott
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:22:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick Gerety alohaboat@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [PUP] Emergency tiller
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
<passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com>
Message-ID: 199395.87058.qm@web35913.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
----- Original Message ----
From: "Truelove39@aol.com" Truelove39@aol.com
Cc: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 4:32:09 AM
Subject: [PUP] Emergency tiller
Seahorse is a cutaway full-keel sailing hull with a rudder which is
about 7
x 3 feet.
I'm having trouble picturing this. The rudder is 7 feet by 3 feet?
I thought I had a large rudder at 3.5 feet tall by 2.5 feet wide on a
40 foot boat. I have a full keel that draws around 3'-8" depending on
load.
it should be
relatively easy unless going astern as it is a semi-balanced rudder.
My rudder is also semi balanced. It is easy to use even when going
astern since I rarely go more than a couple of knots when going in
reverse.
Dennis Conner admonished his helmsmen never to use more
than 7 degrees of helm. That is evidently the point where the rudder
begins
to slow the boat.
Interesting information, didn't know that. But I rarely use more than 7
deg. helm unless making a hard turn. My boat tracks very true on
autopilot even in following seas of 15 feet, because of the long, deep
keel and rounded stern. Yaw is never more than a couple of degrees in
those conditions.
I too have an emergency tiller. It is made from 2" heavywalled
aluminum. It is "L" shaped and the handle is approximately 3 feet long.
The tiller fits through a removable deck plate on the stern deck which
is directly over the rudder post. They lock together via a machined
slot. I can stand upright on the stern deck if I need to use the
tiller.
I have never used it so I don't know how well it works. I should
practice with it before I "need" to use it.
I also installed an old sailboaters trick. I have a hole glassed in
through the aft end of my rudder that I can pass a line through. I can
knot the line on both sides of the hole and pass the line through port
and starboard hawse pipes for an additional backup system.
Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
La Paz, MX
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End of Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 40, Issue 14
A few thoughts:
a. My 40' Nordhavn won't go 100 yards in a straight direction. It never
steers a set course without constant input from the autopilot or helm. This
is not a function of the stabilizing fins, it does it with our without the
fins active. I suspect the hull is unstable due to the "maintenance
strakes" that give you the wonderful walk around in the engine room, a good
compromise overall.
b. The bow thruster is another mode of moving the bow of the boat in a
desired direction, although it's not going to be effective for hundreds of
miles.
c. The steering system is really rather simple, a pump, hose and a ram.
The ram can be spared, there are three pumps (2 autopilots and a helm) and
the hoses can be spared. Carry some extra fluid and be ready to repair a
failed system and you are far better off then tiller steering
d. Having the tiller so you can resolve a complete failure of the ram
attachment to the rudder makes sense. Perhaps having a way to reattach the
ram would be equally effective? In the scheme of things I'd think these are
fairly low risk items? Much more likely to lose other systems first, but
being prepared is always good!!!
I know of a Camano 31 that also lost it's steering because a collar loosened
up. Perhaps a semi annual inspection of the ram attachment points is wise?
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
Currently in Puntarenas Costa Rica
Before excusing the stabilizer fins, try going straight with the fins
"centered." I'll bet she stays on course.
Ron Rogers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott E. Bulger" scottebulger@gmail.com
|
| a. My 40' Nordhavn won't go 100 yards in a straight direction. It never
| steers a set course without constant input from the autopilot or helm.
This
| is not a function of the stabilizing fins, it does it with our without the
| fins active. I suspect the hull is unstable due to the "maintenance
| strakes" that give you the wonderful walk around in the engine room, a
good compromise overall.
As I said:
"it does it with our without the fins active."
Wanders like the eyes of a teenage boy at the prom...
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Ron Rogers
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:11 PM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: Re: [PUP] Emergency tiller
Before excusing the stabilizer fins, try going straight with the fins
"centered." I'll bet she stays on course.
Ron Rogers
Let me be more clear. On my ancient Naiads there be "Off" and "Centered" and
"On." "Centered" on my boat means that the system is on and hydraulic
pressure is holding the fins rigid - locked. This can also be done with the
pins provided. Mine can move around when the system is "Off."
I noticed the difference both when heading into 5 and 6 foot seas and when
docking, My boat handles better when docking (astern) if the Naiads (Model
252) are "Centered."
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott E. Bulger" scottebulger@gmail.com
To: "'Passagemaking Under Power List'"
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Emergency tiller
| As I said:
|
|
| "it does it with our without the fins active."
|
| Wanders like the eyes of a teenage boy at the prom...
|
| Scott
|
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
| [mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
| Ron Rogers
| Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:11 PM
| To: Passagemaking Under Power List
| Subject: Re: [PUP] Emergency tiller
|
| Before excusing the stabilizer fins, try going straight with the fins
| "centered." I'll bet she stays on course.
|
| Ron Rogers
on the Trac units I run them either Active or Off. If Off they are
also pinned in place, they do not move. The boat, with the fins off
and pinned wanders all over the sea like a sailor on shore leave in
the Roja district.
What more can I say?
Scott
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Ron Rogers rcrogers6@kennett.net wrote:
Let me be more clear. On my ancient Naiads there be "Off" and "Centered" and
"On." "Centered" on my boat means that the system is on and hydraulic
pressure is holding the fins rigid - locked. This can also be done with the
pins provided. Mine can move around when the system is "Off."
I noticed the difference both when heading into 5 and 6 foot seas and when
docking, My boat handles better when docking (astern) if the Naiads (Model
252) are "Centered."
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott E. Bulger" scottebulger@gmail.com
To: "'Passagemaking Under Power List'"
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Emergency tiller
| As I said:
|
|
| "it does it with our without the fins active."
|
| Wanders like the eyes of a teenage boy at the prom...
|
| Scott
|
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
| [mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
| Ron Rogers
| Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:11 PM
| To: Passagemaking Under Power List
| Subject: Re: [PUP] Emergency tiller
|
| Before excusing the stabilizer fins, try going straight with the fins
| "centered." I'll bet she stays on course.
|
| Ron Rogers
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Not much. {;*)) Give your boat a Breathalyzer test? Do other Nordhavns
exhibit this trait?
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bulger" scottebulger@gmail.com
| on the Trac units I run them either Active or Off. If Off they are
| also pinned in place, they do not move. The boat, with the fins off
| and pinned wanders all over the sea like a sailor on shore leave in
| the Roja district.
|
| What more can I say?
Not much. {;*)) Give your boat a
Breathalyzer test?
Do other Nordhavns
exhibit this trait?
As a person who has several thousand miles on both
Willards and Nordhavns (including N40's), I can say
that I never found the N40 to be particularly
unwieldy. Compared to the Willard, it has higher
windage and gets pushed around a bit, but that's more
because the Willard is such an extraordinary boat.
Compared to other boats - especially motoryachts
without ballast, the N40 is very mannerly in my
opinion.
Scott - any more metaphors?
Peter
Willard 36
San FRancisco
--- Ron Rogers rcrogers6@kennett.net wrote:
Not much. {;*)) Give your boat a Breathalyzer test?
Do other Nordhavns
exhibit this trait?
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bulger" scottebulger@gmail.com
| on the Trac units I run them either Active or Off.
If Off they are
| also pinned in place, they do not move. The boat,
with the fins off
| and pinned wanders all over the sea like a sailor
on shore leave in
| the Roja district.
|
| What more can I say?
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World Productions.
=======================
Peter Pisciotta
415-902-8439
My Krogen does the same thing, good to hear someone else admit that there
stuff ain't perfect. If self steering, when I look behind at the trail, it
looks like a drunkin sailor leavin the bar at 2 in the mornin. And, it works
the !#%# out of the auto pilot when in use. The maintenance strakes are
probably not the culprit, even tho Nordy did try to make everone think they
were a benifit to the ability to get thru the water (shame on them), more
likely it's a lack of purchase on the water due to a big beam and short
waterline.> From: rcrogers6@kennett.net> To:
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:29:16
-0400> Subject: Re: [PUP] Emergency tiller> > Not much. {;*)) Give your boat a
Breathalyzer test? Do other Nordhavns > exhibit this trait?> > Ron> > -----
Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Bulger" scottebulger@gmail.com> > > |
on the Trac units I run them either Active or Off. If Off they are> | also
pinned in place, they do not move. The boat, with the fins off> | and pinned
wanders all over the sea like a sailor on shore leave in> | the Roja
district.> |> | What more can I say? >
_______________________________________________>
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power> > To
unsubscribe send email to> passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com
with the word> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the
message.> > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.>
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I don't know? I only own one. : ). I'll ask on the owners list, it
will be interesting to see if anyone admits it or not? It's no big
deal. 99.9 percent of the time your under autopilot anyway.
Scott
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Ron Rogers rcrogers6@kennett.net wrote:
Not much. {;*)) Give your boat a Breathalyzer test? Do other Nordhavns
exhibit this trait?
Ron