k. We had at least 4 layers of rules checking that ran before the board finally went out for fab ….. Bob > On May 14, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Mike Ingle wrote: > > Hi All, > > I will second Bob's comment on choosing a program with PCB - Schematic > integration. I can heartily recommend Kicad. I own Altium designer, but > work remotely for an American firm from Germany. The US office uses PADs. > We have finally agreed on projects going forward to both use Kicad. While > Altium designer is more mature, and a little smoother to use, all of the > programs have quirks, and require that you become familiar with them. So > far I am not seeing any limitations in Kicad that would prevent getting > good boards made. And, many prototype oriented houses accept Kicad PCB > files directly (for example EUROCIRCUITS) , which saves you from generating > Gerbers and drill files. > > And Kicad just keeps getting better. > > -- mike > > > > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 4:30 PM Bob kb8tq wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I would toss in: >> >> If you are starting from scratch, pick a program that allows you to easily >> enter schematics as well as PCB layouts. Take the time to learn both sides >> of the program. That will give you an automated check between the schematic >> and the layout….. It also gives you a document to go back to / hand to >> others >> to show what the board was intended to do. >> >> Bob >> >>> On May 14, 2020, at 5:51 AM, ew via time-nuts >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Mark for reminding me, spend 3 hours this morning reviewing >> designs to be released. Found a couple of problems. Also went back to look >> at the OCXO boards I released in 2018, found a problem on the board with no >> Amp, the SMA is not grounded. Easy to fix, but if some one wants new Gerber >> will publish it.Always try to have a third party check my designs. To many >> designs 30 this year. >>> Bert Kehren >>> In a message dated 5/13/2020 10:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> holrum@hotmail.com writes: >>> >>> One thing that I recommend is that after completing the layout is to:1) >> step back and wait a few days2) enjoy a few adult beverages while waiting3) >> go back a re-check everything4) send it out to the board house >>> You'd be surprised how often simple, subtle, not so subtle >> glitches/tweaks/improvements show up after a pause in the process. >>> --------------- >>>> Once you get going, a board is a weekend project. Indeed, a simple >> board might be anevening project. There’s not a lot involved. >> _______________________________________________time-nuts mailing list -- >> time-nuts@lists.febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.comand follow >> the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

at 12:26 PM Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > Going from “pro” layout tools to KiCad, the only big thing that seems to > be missing is a “full feature” DRC (design rules check) process in KiCad. > The tools I worked with in the past had much more fine grained rules > checking > features. > > Probably not a big deal for a basement project. It would have stopped > things > dead if we tried to run it at work. We had at least 4 layers of rules > checking > that ran before the board finally went out for fab ….. > > Bob > > > On May 14, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Mike Ingle wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I will second Bob's comment on choosing a program with PCB - Schematic > > integration. I can heartily recommend Kicad. I own Altium designer, but > > work remotely for an American firm from Germany. The US office uses > PADs. > > We have finally agreed on projects going forward to both use Kicad. > While > > Altium designer is more mature, and a little smoother to use, all of the > > programs have quirks, and require that you become familiar with them. So > > far I am not seeing any limitations in Kicad that would prevent getting > > good boards made. And, many prototype oriented houses accept Kicad PCB > > files directly (for example EUROCIRCUITS) , which saves you from > generating > > Gerbers and drill files. > > > > And Kicad just keeps getting better. > > > > -- mike > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 4:30 PM Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> I would toss in: > >> > >> If you are starting from scratch, pick a program that allows you to > easily > >> enter schematics as well as PCB layouts. Take the time to learn both > sides > >> of the program. That will give you an automated check between the > schematic > >> and the layout….. It also gives you a document to go back to / hand to > >> others > >> to show what the board was intended to do. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On May 14, 2020, at 5:51 AM, ew via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Thanks Mark for reminding me, spend 3 hours this morning reviewing > >> designs to be released. Found a couple of problems. Also went back to > look > >> at the OCXO boards I released in 2018, found a problem on the board > with no > >> Amp, the SMA is not grounded. Easy to fix, but if some one wants new > Gerber > >> will publish it.Always try to have a third party check my designs. To > many > >> designs 30 this year. > >>> Bert Kehren > >>> In a message dated 5/13/2020 10:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >> holrum@hotmail.com writes: > >>> > >>> One thing that I recommend is that after completing the layout is to:1) > >> step back and wait a few days2) enjoy a few adult beverages while > waiting3) > >> go back a re-check everything4) send it out to the board house > >>> You'd be surprised how often simple, subtle, not so subtle > >> glitches/tweaks/improvements show up after a pause in the process. > >>> --------------- > >>>> Once you get going, a board is a weekend project. Indeed, a simple > >> board might be anevening project. There’s not a lot involved. > >> _______________________________________________time-nuts mailing list -- > >> time-nuts@lists.febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.comand > follow > >> the instructions there. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. >

hem? Thanks. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.

w” ( = suppress ) the error once you checked it out. 2) Zone based rules. The region under a BGA may be very tight in terms or clearances. The rest of the board likely will not be. Having rule zones helps deal with this. 3) Silk screen / mask rules. Getting the silk screen so it either shows right or is suppressed is a pretty basic process. Doing it manually is a major pain. Indeed a number of “pro” packages have the same issues. 4) Extras. Duplicate holes should not get into the drill file. Dangling trace bits should be spotted and flagged…….. Yes, this could go on and on. No, the cheap board houses don’t check for this stuff. They just build and send it back. If there’s a gotcha, you get it on the board. Bob > On May 14, 2020, at 3:12 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > kb8tq@n1k.org said: >> Probably not a big deal for a basement project. It would have stopped things >> dead if we tried to run it at work. We had at least 4 layers of rules >> checking that ran before the board finally went out for fab ….. > > Could you give a few examples of the more obscure rules? > > Do the low cost board shops give you enough info to check them? > > Thanks. > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

ey could reduce the hole diameters slightly to correct. I agreed, they made the change, and the boards are with DHL right now. So they do have a process to kick at least some issues to human beings for resolution, rather than just rejecting the job. BTW, two things I've learned from my current project: 1. Seeed claims that they can do down to 4mil trace width and spacing, and down to 0.2mm holes, but those add extra charges. For their $4.95 for ten boards deal, the minimums are 6mils and 0.5mm holes (why can't they pick one dimension system for the specs???) Go smaller and the price goes up 10x or more. 2. Where I had the clearance problem was on a USB C connector. Whatever advantages they have, they are a pain to route and solder. The one I used (which seems fairly common) has both through hole and SMT pads, and the space to get all the signals lines connected and routed is very, very tight. The smaller trace and hole sizes would have made the job easier, but I wasn't willing to jack up the cost for that. John ----

e together (by a couple > of thousandths). They asked if they could reduce the hole diameters I had the same good experience with PCBway. I used these 0.9 * 0.9 mm GaN FETs, and that does not mean 0.9mm gate length: https://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/epc/EPC2038/917-1138-1-ND/5774048 and used the proposed Altium footprints from EPC. These pull the solder mask onto the pad which is unusual but maybe essential for a smooth soldering experience. I'm sure that EPC have experimented with that. PCBway emailed me directly and we cleared that up that it was intentional. They still produced the board on the same day, and soldering was easy. Very satisfied customer. Nevertheless I'll try JLCpcb next week. They now have a proxy man somewhere here in .de who gets one box from China a day and forwards the contents to the different customers after the customs work is done, via normal local registered mail. The import VAT is then already done and billed by JLCpcb. DHL Express is a royal pain to deal with. Cheers, Gerhard > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

h the information and help I needed. All without charge. I asked as a hobbyist, but what they don't know is I'm looking at some equipment for the day job. Looks like it will be Fluke ;-).   Robert G8RPI.

e winter and nested on top of the back porch the following spring.  We have continued with the peanut butter for the last 19+ years, and have always had a pair of Carolinas every winter.  In recent years we added meal worms, which the Carolinas seem to especially love.  We made a kind of a cave feeder out of stacked bricks, to slow down the rate of consumption by other birds, especially blue jays -- the wrens are perfectly happy to go into a dark tunnel to get the worms (as are chickadees and titmice).  Our this winter's pair of wrens seem to have made it thru this most recent cold spell. Bill Moorhead Consulting Botanist/Plant Community Ecologist 486 Torrington Road Litchfield, CT 06759 Phone & FAX: 860-567-4920 Cell phone: 860-543-1786 Email: whmoorhead@optonline.net

m   output power < 20dBm, so any upconverter used would need to be able to produce rated output from a   < 20dBm IF signal.

ook for as many bird species as you can and are awarded points for each species you find. The less common the species, the more points you acquire. Prizes will be awarded to groups in several categories AND the points you attain will be converted to a monetary donation to the CT conservation organization of your choice. COA is pleased to partner with the Mega Bowl to offer one COA membership and one COA Annual Meeting ticket as additional prizes for select event categories selected by Chris Loscalzo. Birders of all experience levels are welcome.See additional details here . People who are interested in participating in the Mega Bowl should contact Chris Loscalzo by email at closcalz@optonline.net or by phone at 203 389-6508. -- Cynthia S Ehlinger Vice President, Connecticut Ornithological Association Riverside