Re: [PUP] Documentation
<George wrote in part: Do you think this will be a problem in the Caribbean,
Panama and the Pacific Islands?>
Yes. The world today wants to see a flagged vessel not a state or provincial
registered one. State registration isn't the same as documentation.
The French are particularly fussy about this. Boats have been fined for not
being flagged when trying to check in.
Suggest that you consider one of the many offshore jurisdictions to flag it.
BVI, Cayman's, Marshall Islands, Anguilla, Antigua, etc. The list is long
and each have their plus' and minus'.
If you are Delaware registered and a foreign national then you can't fly the
US Flag but only the Delaware State flag.
I'm surprised that the broker or whom ever you bought it from hasn't helped
you on this matter. They should know the rules and if not steer you to an
agent that does.
Better to get it done right before you leave rather than find out in some
hot little customs agent office that what you have given him isn't what he
wants.
As always YMMV....
Dave & Nancy
Swan Song
Roughwater 58
Dave helpfully suggested: Suggest that you consider one of the many
offshore jurisdictions to flag it. BVI, Cayman's, Marshall Islands,
Anguilla, Antigua, etc. The list is long and each have their plus' and
minus'. If you are Delaware registered and a foreign national then you can't
fly the US Flag but only the Delaware State flag.
Scott respectfully submits:
Shouldn't you fly the flag of the country you were born in, that your
parents and grandparents may have given their lives for, where you raise
your children? Doesn't the world need people willing to fly their flag and
proudly proclaim they are from a country and proud of it?
Australia is a beautiful exotic country with some of the most amazing men
and women on the planet. Fly your home country flag proudly and proclaim to
the world you are Australian and damn proud of it!
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
Please note: If you see me in pirate infested waters I will be flying the a
Russian or Israeli flag, because pirates know they are armed and will shoot
to kill.
Scott, don't assume we did not want to fly our flag. Of course I would like
to flag the boat as Australian. Anyone who is familiar with Australian
Customs will tell you that this country is one of the most difficult to
enter. I am having problems flagging the boat here as it is in the USA and
not registered here. I cannot register it here as you need a state
(Australian) gas certificate. I paid for the advice that ended up with the
decision to register the boat in Delaware. The previous owner (Phil Ritchey
who by the way was wonderful to deal with) has already paid his taxes and
duty and therefore it was built into the brokerage price. I will be paying
a total of 15% of the boats value in duty and taxes when it gets back here.
I don't think either government is doing that good a job that we need to pay
them more than is due to them. I don't know what you pay over there but 15%
to me is more than fair.
As far as bringing the boat back here being 'insane'. I consider we have
bought a well equipped proven boat that will enable us to see the Bahamas
and Caribbean along with the Pacific Islands on our way home. An East to
West crossing is the way to go so I was never going to have this adventure
without starting in the US.
Dave I have a twin screw counter rotating setup here on a 40 footer and your
advice re manoeuvring is spot on. I was worried about going to a single
screw (re close quarter docking) until I was shown how to it is done.
George Nason
Scott respectfully submits:
Shouldn't you fly the flag of the country you were born in, that your
parents and grandparents may have given their lives for, where you raise
your children? Doesn't the world need people willing to fly their flag and
proudly proclaim they are from a country and proud of it?
Australia is a beautiful exotic country with some of the most amazing men
and women on the planet. Fly your home country flag proudly and proclaim to
the world you are Australian and damn proud of it!
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
Please note: If you see me in pirate infested waters I will be flying the a
Russian or Israeli flag, because pirates know they are armed and will shoot
to kill.
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George,
As soon as I sent that I realized the word insane wasn't appropriate, if you
were here (inside my peanut sized brain) you would have heard it used as an
explicative, more like a surfer guy saying "radical" or something like that.
Believe me, I am fully aware your boat is more than capable for the journey!
I paid 8.6% in Washington. I agree 15% is on the bounds of sanity (there I
go again!). My point was twofold (and I'm the first to admit I don't fully
understand all the issues):
-
If you own and operate a boat in the US, somehow the piper needs to get
paid. Those young men and ladies in the USCG need to get paid and maintain
their boats, somehow I always picture my check making it's way into their
pockets (I know that's delusional). The same is true in your host country. -
when I see a boat in Seattle WA year after year and it says "BVI" I know
it's some kind of scheme to escape the tax. I guess they pay plenty of tax
when they pay their moorage and maintenance, but somehow it just doesn't sit
right.
Maybe I'm just being unreasonable because I'm not smart enough to take
advantage of such schemes? I don't know what to think about people who
really are out there and nomads moving from one country to another.
I guess what this all means is: What is the purpose behind flagging
(documenting?) a boat in a country anyway? I think in the US the process is
rooted in the military being able to seize your boat in times of war and use
it for national defense. I don't know what it means in other countries?
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
Scott
I forgot to mention we have wonderful friends in the US on both coasts and
in the middle so any excuse to spend time Stateside over the years has been
a blessing. The boat passing back and forwards is perhaps another example of
what a small place the world is becoming and therefore the lure of being in
a remote place becomes even more compelling.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Bulger
Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2007 1:57 PM
To: 'Passagemaking Under Power List'
Subject: Re: [PUP] Documentation
George,
As soon as I sent that I realized the word insane wasn't appropriate, if you
were here (inside my peanut sized brain) you would have heard it used as an
explicative, more like a surfer guy saying "radical" or something like that.
Believe me, I am fully aware your boat is more than capable for the journey!
I paid 8.6% in Washington. I agree 15% is on the bounds of sanity (there I
go again!). My point was twofold (and I'm the first to admit I don't fully
understand all the issues):
-
If you own and operate a boat in the US, somehow the piper needs to get
paid. Those young men and ladies in the USCG need to get paid and maintain
their boats, somehow I always picture my check making it's way into their
pockets (I know that's delusional). The same is true in your host country. -
when I see a boat in Seattle WA year after year and it says "BVI" I know
it's some kind of scheme to escape the tax. I guess they pay plenty of tax
when they pay their moorage and maintenance, but somehow it just doesn't sit
right.
Maybe I'm just being unreasonable because I'm not smart enough to take
advantage of such schemes? I don't know what to think about people who
really are out there and nomads moving from one country to another.
I guess what this all means is: What is the purpose behind flagging
(documenting?) a boat in a country anyway? I think in the US the process is
rooted in the military being able to seize your boat in times of war and use
it for national defense. I don't know what it means in other countries?
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
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As I've been told (not legal advice, but what I've picked up by
asking around):
If you are a Washington state resident and you own the boat and you
have it in WA, then it doesn't matter what it says on the stern, you
owe the state use tax (even on foreign flagged vessels). However, out-
of-state corporations and foreign corporations can eliminate the
"state resident and you own the boat" clause.
But even then, a nonresident (including nonresident or foreign
corporate owner) who keeps the boat in the state more than 6 months
in a year owes the tax. So you get nailed that way too unless you
keep it in Canada at least half the year. Canada and WA talk and both
can (and do) hassle owners who try this, but I think the Canada
shuffle is legal. But it means having two slips.
The secondary question is whether you get caught. The BVI on the back
might help with that, but that's another subject.
You did the reasonable thing in paying the tax, IMHO. Each state in
the US is different, but WA has closed most of the loopholes for
anyone who wants to keep their boat in WA waters. No way to legally
avoid it if you berth it here.
But then, WA is one of the few states which doesn't have an income
tax, so they have to work hard to get the money other ways.
John
On Oct 24, 2007, at 8:57 PM, Scott Bulger wrote:
George,
As soon as I sent that I realized the word insane wasn't
appropriate, if you
were here (inside my peanut sized brain) you would have heard it
used as an
explicative, more like a surfer guy saying "radical" or something
like that.
Believe me, I am fully aware your boat is more than capable for the
journey!
I paid 8.6% in Washington. I agree 15% is on the bounds of sanity
(there I
go again!). My point was twofold (and I'm the first to admit I
don't fully
understand all the issues):
-
If you own and operate a boat in the US, somehow the piper
needs to get
paid. Those young men and ladies in the USCG need to get paid and
maintain
their boats, somehow I always picture my check making it's way into
their
pockets (I know that's delusional). The same is true in your host
country. -
when I see a boat in Seattle WA year after year and it says
"BVI" I know
it's some kind of scheme to escape the tax. I guess they pay
plenty of tax
when they pay their moorage and maintenance, but somehow it just
doesn't sit
right.
Maybe I'm just being unreasonable because I'm not smart enough to take
advantage of such schemes? I don't know what to think about people
who
really are out there and nomads moving from one country to another.
I guess what this all means is: What is the purpose behind flagging
(documenting?) a boat in a country anyway? I think in the US the
process is
rooted in the military being able to seize your boat in times of
war and use
it for national defense. I don't know what it means in other
countries?
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.