Hi Scott - Sorry, I meant no slur on Nordhavn owners. I meant to convey that, IMHO, PAE portrays their boats quite loftily compared to their peers. Over the years, the superlatives in the ads have become a bit over the edge. I don't see other quality manufacturers using Mad Av one-liners like "A boat that meets all conditions of the sea..." I think that's a far-fetched statement about a 55-foot boat! No doubt that is one reason for their success, and I certainly don't begrudge them that - let me know when the stock goes public! Regards, John "Seahorse" > John continued: Of course they are not the only ones to do this, but as they portray themselves quite loftily, you'd think that would extend to "full disclosure," so to say. Scott asks: I don't understand what loftily is? The owners that post on the Nordhavn forum cross post to PUP list all the time. Nordhavn owners are just like any other owners, some quite nice, open and easy going, some not. I'd refrain from making generalizations that lump an entire community of people into one bucket. I've been criticized for bashing Selene boats, I guess my comments like "I'd be proud to own one, and "they are beautiful boats" somehow gets lost when a single negative experience is mentioned. People are emotional about their boats, fellow owners and other peoples opinions. Email lacks the ability to provide inflection and is therefore subject to having the intent of the message be skewed by the perspective the reader brings to the discussion. Often a single word can incorrectly become the focus of an interpretation and send a discussion into a realm that wasn't intended. There is nothing elitist or arrogant about the Nordhavn owners forum being close d othe r than a desire to minimize the amount of administration overhead need to operate it and maximize the benefit to the owners reading it. Have a great day! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.