RE: TWL: Vinegar engine flush
Hi Peggy:
So good to see your smiling face here on TWL! We have missed you!
I have a question regarding plumbing the vessel potable water supply to
the head for flushing. I understand that code requires a device to be
inserted between the two to prevent back contamination. I have a
siphon-break but I suspect that is not enough. Is there a gizmo out
there that can be plumbed into the water feed line to meet code
requirements?
Thanks again!
Joe Engel
Portland, OR
Joe, help me understand why people are so concerned about the type of water
used to flush, uh, er, "contaminant" or "effluent" through their toilets?
Guess I don't understand that concern.
Thanks, Bob Peterson
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Engel
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:45 AM
To: peg.hall@sbcglobal.net
Cc: trawler-world-list@lists.samurai.com
Subject: RE: TWL: Vinegar engine flush
I have a question regarding plumbing the vessel potable water supply to the
head for flushing. I understand that code requires a device to be inserted
between the two to prevent back contamination. I have a siphon-break but I
suspect that is not enough. Is there a gizmo out there that can be plumbed
into the water feed line to meet code requirements?
-----Original Message-----
Joe, help me understand why people are so concerned about the type of water
used to flush, uh, er, "contaminant" or "effluent" through their toilets?
Guess I don't understand that concern.
Hi Bob,
There is a real desire to have fresh water flushing because of a major problem
associated with raw water flushing. Salt water taken in to the flushing system
is not just water and dissolved salt, but it is also loaded with micro sized sea
creatures. When the boat sits unused for more that one day, all of the water
sitting in the hoses stagnates - the organisms use up all the dissolved oxygen
and then die. The stagnant water begins to stink of hydrogen sulfide as things
in the water die. After several days, if you flush the head without ever putting
anything into it but the raw flushing water, the stink can be overpowering.
At that point you have to continue flushing until you've got "fresh" raw water
in the bowl to stop the stink (with the stinky water now in your hoses and
starting to permeate through the hose wall if you didn't flush it all the way to
the holding tank.
Using fresh water instead of raw water gets rid of this problem.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin, but I think I figured out my own answer. We use Electra-sans
and they require salt water to work properly.
Bob P.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Redden
There is a real desire to have fresh water flushing because of a major
problem associated with raw water flushing. Salt water taken in to the
flushing system is not just water and dissolved salt, but it is also loaded
with micro sized sea creatures.
Joe Engel wrote:
Hi Peggy:
So good to see your smiling face here on TWL! We have missed you!
Thanks for the kind words!
I have a question regarding plumbing the vessel potable water supply to
the head for flushing. I understand that code requires a device to be
inserted between the two to prevent back contamination. I have a
siphon-break but I suspect that is not enough. Is there a gizmo out
there that can be plumbed into the water feed line to meet code
requirements?
If your toilets are designed to require pressurized flush water,
everything that's needed to protect the potable water supply is either
installed in them or supplied with them.
If your toilets are NOT designed to require pressurized flush water,
there is no safe way to connect them to it without risk of polluting the
potable supply, damage to the toilet, or both. ANd every toilet mfr
includes a specific warning against it in the installation instructions
for all raw water toilets.
Peggie
Bob Peterson wrote:
Thanks Kevin, but I think I figured out my own answer. We use Electra-sans
and they require salt water to work properly.
The Lectra/San can be used with pressurized fresh water flush toilets,
by adding one of the optional salt tanks to the system. Or, by simply
adding two tablespoons (one coffee measure) of table salt to each flush.
Peggie
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327
Peggie, you are quite correct, but with an inexhaustible supply of saltwater
all around me, I never was interested in adding extra tanks and hoses and
have rarely encountered any problem with foul odors from the head, except on
those occasions when we left it for a few weeks.
Bob P.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peggie Hall [mailto:peg.hall@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:04 AM
To: Bob Peterson
Cc: 'Kevin Redden'; 'Trawler World List'
Subject: Re: TWL: Vinegar engine flush
The Lectra/San can be used with pressurized fresh water flush toilets, by
adding one of the optional salt tanks to the system. Or, by simply adding
two tablespoons (one coffee measure) of table salt to each flush.
There's actually a very simple and inexpensive solution to raw water
intake odor: rinse it out of the system before it can sit and stagnate.
However, just pouring fresh water down the toilet doesnt help, because
nothing poured into the bowl ever gets into the intake line or inside
the rim of the bowl where the worst of the odor is coming from.
I dont recommend using the "inline" chemical devices sold for this
purpose. Some only reduce the problem, they dont completely solve it;
the chemicals used in some of them can be harmful to rubber and neoprene
parts in the toilet; others may be incompatible, or even produce toxic
gasses, if combined with other chemicals used in the holding tank or
treatment device. They should never be used if a Lectra/San is
installed, because the chemicals in them can damage the electrodes.
On many sailboats, the head sink drain already shares the same
through-hull with the toilet intake. Although most powerboat sinks drain
through a separate through-hull above the waterline, theres certainly
no reason why the sink on any sailboat or powerboat cant share the same
through-hull, provided the toilet and sink are on the same side of the
boat, and the head intake through-hull is close to both.
If they are, its a simple matter to tee or wye the sink drain hose into
the head intake hose next to the seacock; both hoses are typically the
same size: > ID. After youve closed the head intake seacock in
preparation to close up the boat, fill the sink with fresh clean water
and flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will
draw the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the entire
system. If your toilet is electric, be careful not to let it run
dry...doing so can burn out the intake impeller.
It will also be necessary to keep the sink plugged except when in use,
either by installing a conveniently located shut-off valve in the drain
hose or with a rubber sink plug. Otherwise the toilet will pull air
through the sink, preventing it from priming.
Peggie
There is a real desire to have fresh water flushing because of a major problem
associated with raw water flushing. Salt water taken in to the flushing system
is not just water and dissolved salt, but it is also loaded with micro sized sea
creatures. When the boat sits unused for more that one day, all of the water
sitting in the hoses stagnates - the organisms use up all the dissolved oxygen
and then die. The stagnant water begins to stink of hydrogen sulfide as things
in the water die. After several days, if you flush the head without ever putting
anything into it but the raw flushing water, the stink can be overpowering.
At that point you have to continue flushing until you've got "fresh" raw water
in the bowl to stop the stink (with the stinky water now in your hoses and
starting to permeate through the hose wall if you didn't flush it all the way to
the holding tank.
Using fresh water instead of raw water gets rid of this problem.
Kevin
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Peggie
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327