Re: [OpenSCAD] request center==centre
Yes, I agree.
A quick look at the cheat sheet shows only 2-3 changes needed:
color("colorname",alpha) == colour("colourname",alpha)
cube([width,depth,height], center) == cube([width,depth,height], centre)
Is anyone aware of any others?
I find it extremely unlikely anyone would have made themselves a clashing module name like 'centre', 'colour' or 'colourname' so the chances of this breaking anybody's code seem to me slim to none, and a simple text search and replace would fix the code in that rare case.
So can it be done, lovely developers, please?
Alex Gibson
+44 7813 810 765 @alexgibson3d 37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR
admg consulting
edumaker limited
• Project management
• Operations & Process improvement
• 3D Printing
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Cox [mailto:alan@llwyncelyn.cymru]
Sent: 07 March 2018 12:32
To: Alex Gibson
Cc: OpenSCAD general discussion; rl.ward@bigpond.com
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] request center==centre
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:05:22 -0000
"Alex Gibson" alex@alexgibson.net wrote:
From the opposite side of the planet in the UK, I would also be very pleased to see a version of OpenSCAD which treated ‘centre’ and ‘center’ as equally valid. As a native English speaker, it’s frustrating when I accidentally spell it the ‘wrong’ way and have to correct…
Agreed - especially as there is no trivial way to add the other spelling as an equvialent as you can say in C. color/colour and center/centre would be good to have.
I don't think going beyond that makes sense because you then have to tokenize and translate, and the tokenisation is complicated because you might have the letters circle in a french program as a variable and when you move it to Englis and edit then it goes invalid. People did in fact try and create nationalised versions of languages like fortran and algol.
They were not a great success.
Alan
"Oxford spelling" is a precise international standard for English spelling.
It's used by the ISO and CIE (international technical standards
organizations), and many other international organizations. It's also
supported by the X11/SVG/web colour-name standard used in OpenSCAD. In
OpenSCAD, you can write either color("grey") or color("gray") -- the former
is Oxford spelling, the latter is American spelling.
OpenSCAD has an international user base. It's not unreasonable to update
the core language to support Oxford spelling for built-in modules and named
parameters. "color/colour" and "center/centre" are the only cases I can
find.
Accepting "centre" as an alias for "center" in square, cube, cylinder, and
linear_extrude and surface will not cause name conflicts with user defined
variables, functions or modules.
Adding a new built-in module is safe, because user-defined modules take
precedence over built-in modules of the same name. Existing scripts that
define a "colour" module and work in version N of OpenSCAD will continue to
work if version N+1 adds a built-in "colour" module.
On 7 March 2018 at 07:57, Alex Gibson alex@alexgibson.net wrote:
Yes, I agree.
A quick look at the cheat sheet shows only 2-3 changes needed:
color("colorname",alpha) == colour("colourname",alpha)
cube([width,depth,height], center) == cube([width,depth,height], centre)
Is anyone aware of any others?
I find it extremely unlikely anyone would have made themselves a clashing
module name like 'centre', 'colour' or 'colourname' so the chances of this
breaking anybody's code seem to me slim to none, and a simple text search
and replace would fix the code in that rare case.
So can it be done, lovely developers, please?
Alex Gibson
+44 7813 810 765 @alexgibson3d 37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR
admg consulting
edumaker limited
• Project management
• Operations & Process improvement
• 3D Printing
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Cox [mailto:alan@llwyncelyn.cymru]
Sent: 07 March 2018 12:32
To: Alex Gibson
Cc: OpenSCAD general discussion; rl.ward@bigpond.com
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] request center==centre
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:05:22 -0000
"Alex Gibson" alex@alexgibson.net wrote:
From the opposite side of the planet in the UK, I would also be very
pleased to see a version of OpenSCAD which treated ‘centre’ and ‘center’ as
equally valid. As a native English speaker, it’s frustrating when I
accidentally spell it the ‘wrong’ way and have to correct…
Agreed - especially as there is no trivial way to add the other spelling
as an equvialent as you can say in C. color/colour and center/centre would
be good to have.
I don't think going beyond that makes sense because you then have to
tokenize and translate, and the tokenisation is complicated because you
might have the letters circle in a french program as a variable and when
you move it to Englis and edit then it goes invalid. People did in fact try
and create nationalised versions of languages like fortran and algol.
They were not a great success.
Alan
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Is there any other language, like c/c++, python, javascript... etc --- which
I believe are all very or even more "international" --- allow this variation
of spelling ?
$ Runsun Pan, PhD $ libs: scadx , doctest , faces ( git ), offline doc ( git ), runscad.py ( 2 , git ), editor of choice: CudaText ( OpenSCAD lexer ); $ Tips ; $ Snippets
--
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If Jules Verne had thought like that he would never have gone to the
moon in 1865 ....
On 07/03/18 17:07, runsun wrote:
Is there any other language, like c/c++, python, javascript... etc --- which
I believe are all very or even more "international" --- allow this variation
of spelling ?
$ Runsun Pan, PhD $ libs: scadx , doctest , faces ( git ), offline doc ( git ), runscad.py ( 2 , git ), editor of choice: CudaText ( OpenSCAD lexer ); $ Tips ; $ Snippets
--
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C++ lets you write either 'a && b' or 'a and b', same for '||' and 'or',
etc, and this is for 'international' reasons, for countries where the '&'
and '|' characters are not on the keyboard. In Scheme, the built-in
function 'call-with-current-continuation' has an alternate spelling
'call/cc' which is shorter. The C language has a profusion of variant
spellings for built in types. For example, 'short', 'short int', 'signed
short int' and 'signed short' are all variant spellings of the same type.
On 7 March 2018 at 12:07, runsun runsun@gmail.com wrote:
Is there any other language, like c/c++, python, javascript... etc ---
which
I believe are all very or even more "international" --- allow this
variation
of spelling ?
$ Runsun Pan, PhD $ libs: scadx , doctest , faces ( git ), offline doc (
git ), runscad.py ( 2 , git ), editor of choice: CudaText ( OpenSCAD lexer
); $ Tips ; $ Snippets
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
From my point of view, all those reasons provided are far from "different
spellings". They are either different formats, different usages, or under
circumstances that there's no other way. They are all legitimate reasons and
none of them is based on "some users can't get used to it".
doug.moen wrote
C++ lets you write either 'a && b' or 'a and b', same for '||' and 'or',
etc, and this is for 'international' reasons, for countries where the '&'
and '|' characters are not on the keyboard. In Scheme, the built-in
function 'call-with-current-continuation' has an alternate spelling
'call/cc' which is shorter. The C language has a profusion of variant
spellings for built in types. For example, 'short', 'short int', 'signed
short int' and 'signed short' are all variant spellings of the same type.
$ Runsun Pan, PhD $ libs: scadx , doctest , faces ( git ), offline doc ( git ), runscad.py ( 2 , git ), editor of choice: CudaText ( OpenSCAD lexer ); $ Tips ; $ Snippets
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
@runsun - it's not that I can't 'get used to it' - but that it has a
constant, dragging, cognitive switching cost for a large number of users. I
have written tens of thousands of lines of OpenSCAD, normally writing
'center' without a second thought - but because it is an English word, and
I'm a native English speaker, from the other half for whom 'centre' is
correct, it's just a regular irritant that disturbs the flow from time to
time. Clearly several people have raised this issue independently over
time, and it strikes me that it always seems to get struck down on
principle, and with an element of cultural chauvinism. I'm not saying one
variant is correct and the other isn't - but for the sake of fewer
exceptions than we can list on one hand, why not make this change?
@Carsten - Hvor bor du i Norge / Norge / North Dakota (!)? Snakker du
Nynorsk eller Bokmål? Jeg er ikke Språkrådet, men jeg tror at sammen vi kan
enes om et Riksmål for OpenSCAD!
Alex Gibson
+44 7813 810 765 @alexgibson3d 37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR
admg consulting
edumaker limited
Project management
Operations & Process improvement
3D Printing
-----Original Message-----
From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.openscad.org] On Behalf Of
runsun
Sent: 07 March 2018 18:47
To: discuss@lists.openscad.org
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] request center==centre
From my point of view, all those reasons provided are far from "different
spellings". They are either different formats, different usages, or under
circumstances that there's no other way. They are all legitimate reasons and
none of them is based on "some users can't get used to it".
doug.moen wrote
C++ lets you write either 'a && b' or 'a and b', same for '||' and
C++ 'or',
etc, and this is for 'international' reasons, for countries where the '&'
and '|' characters are not on the keyboard. In Scheme, the built-in
function 'call-with-current-continuation' has an alternate spelling
'call/cc' which is shorter. The C language has a profusion of variant
spellings for built in types. For example, 'short', 'short int',
'signed short int' and 'signed short' are all variant spellings of the
same type.
$ Runsun Pan, PhD $ libs: scadx , doctest , faces ( git ), offline doc (
git ), runscad.py ( 2 , git ), editor of choice: CudaText ( OpenSCAD lexer
); $ Tips ; $ Snippets
--
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Discuss@lists.openscad.org
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On 07. mars 2018 20:18, Alex Gibson wrote:
@Carsten - Hvor bor du i Norge / Norge / North Dakota (!)? Snakker du
Nynorsk eller Bokmål? Jeg er ikke Språkrådet, men jeg tror at sammen vi kan
enes om et Riksmål for OpenSCAD!
@Alex - Wow, du snakker Norsk, imponerende! Jeg snakker Riksmål og bor i
Buskerud i Norge :-)
I think one written form is the 'only' way for a language like OpenSCAD.
I see libraries like wxWidgets allowing color/colour etc. but for
OpenSCAD I think it would cause more confusion to change it now. I was
taught the British colour and centre at school, but in computer
languages it seems like a lost cause.
These issues don't really stop with English spelling. Why are angles
specified in degrees for example? :-) In computer languages you would
expect sin() and cos() to take radians, but not in OpenSCAD. The list is
quite long if you think about it.
Carsten Arnholm
I think you can "overwrite" the default modules with user-defined ones, and
probably get the behavio(u)r you're looking for, and then pack it into a
library, so it becomes a single line like:
#use<english.scad>
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
Radians are good for maths but not for making real life objects where 90,
30, 45 and 60 degrees are useful and cannot be expressed in floating point
radians.
On 7 March 2018 at 19:57, Carsten Arnholm arnholm@arnholm.org wrote:
On 07. mars 2018 20:18, Alex Gibson wrote:
@Carsten - Hvor bor du i Norge / Norge / North Dakota (!)? Snakker du
Nynorsk eller Bokmål? Jeg er ikke Språkrådet, men jeg tror at sammen vi
kan
enes om et Riksmål for OpenSCAD!
@Alex - Wow, du snakker Norsk, imponerende! Jeg snakker Riksmål og bor i
Buskerud i Norge :-)
I think one written form is the 'only' way for a language like OpenSCAD. I
see libraries like wxWidgets allowing color/colour etc. but for OpenSCAD I
think it would cause more confusion to change it now. I was taught the
British colour and centre at school, but in computer languages it seems
like a lost cause.
These issues don't really stop with English spelling. Why are angles
specified in degrees for example? :-) In computer languages you would
expect sin() and cos() to take radians, but not in OpenSCAD. The list is
quite long if you think about it.
Carsten Arnholm
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org