Empathy List Archives

PS

Perry Sandeen

Wed, Jan 27, 2016 4:08 AM

Hi,
Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is - why do that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter with way less effort…..
Well, I have two reasons not to.
First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out of my units before blowing off my investment.
Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have to many other projects to finish to learn something new.
Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still was too hot.
IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will be a while before I can work on mine.
I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3 terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned.
I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And when done I’ll tell the list how I did it.
Regards,
Perrier

Hi, Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is - why do that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter with way less effort….. Well, I have two reasons not to. First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out of my units before blowing off my investment. Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have to many other projects to finish to learn something new. Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still was too hot. IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will be a while before I can work on mine. I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3 terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned. I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And when done I’ll tell the list how I did it. Regards, Perrier

BG

Bruce Griffiths

Wed, Jan 27, 2016 8:51 AM

Just make sure that the airflow around the OXCO isnt too great or the oven temperature regulation will suffer.
Bruce

On Wednesday, 27 January 2016 8:02 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

Hi,
Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem.. The question is - why do that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter with way less effort…..
Well, I have two reasons not to.
First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out of my units before blowing off my investment.
Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have to many other projects to finish to learn something new.
Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still was too hot.
IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will be a while before I can work on mine.
I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3 terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned.
I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And when done I’ll tell the list how I did it.
Regards,
Perrier

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Just make sure that the airflow around the OXCO isnt too great or the oven temperature regulation will suffer. Bruce On Wednesday, 27 January 2016 8:02 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: Hi, Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem.. The question is - why do that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter with way less effort….. Well, I have two reasons not to. First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out of my units before blowing off my investment. Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have to many other projects to finish to learn something new. Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still was too hot. IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will be a while before I can work on mine. I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3 terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned. I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And when done I’ll tell the list how I did it. Regards, Perrier _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

BC

Bob Camp

Wed, Jan 27, 2016 12:46 PM

Hi

Ok, well let’s put some dimensions on it.

Say that the new board for the counter costs $400 each. (and that’s probably low). How many are people likely to buy?

If so how much would you pay for a working 5370?

Bob

On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote:

Hi,
Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is - why do that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter with way less effort…..
Well, I have two reasons not to.
First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out of my units before blowing off my investment.
Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have to many other projects to finish to learn something new.
Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still was too hot.
IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will be a while before I can work on mine.
I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3 terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned.
I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And when done I’ll tell the list how I did it.
Regards,
Perrier

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Ok, well let’s put some dimensions on it. Say that the new board for the counter costs $400 each. (and that’s probably low). How many are people likely to buy? If so how much would you pay for a working 5370? Bob > On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > > Hi, > Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is - why do that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter with way less effort….. > Well, I have two reasons not to. > First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out of my units before blowing off my investment. > Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have to many other projects to finish to learn something new. > Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still was too hot. > IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will be a while before I can work on mine. > I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3 terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned. > I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And when done I’ll tell the list how I did it. > Regards, > Perrier > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

PS

paul swed

Wed, Jan 27, 2016 3:34 PM

Some great comments and like all of you I like my 5370s and 5345s. Real
buttons no mouse. Must be a throw back to the dark ages.
Always knew about the fan issue on the 5370 and have added fans to my main
operating unit.
But it had not occurred to me that the way the front panel is laid out
there may be little actual airflow across those chips. Thats quite a
thought.
So for those with working units that may be a completely seperate thread.
How hot do they get? Then some solution for that.
Essentially fix it before it dies.
Then there is the question I posed.
Skipping all of the details like adjustable slicing polarity and such. What
is the minimum to get a signal into the counter as a way to return it to
some usable service and certainly verify the bad frontend. Lets call this a
poor but useful answer.

From that point it returns to this discussion.

But a full new front panel. As Perry says most likely not.
I do have 2 X5345s that I am pretty sure I need to dive into the front end
on. My excuse other projects...
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 7:46 AM, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:

Hi

Ok, well let’s put some dimensions on it.

Say that the new board for the counter costs $400 each. (and that’s
probably low). How many are people likely to buy?

If so how much would you pay for a working 5370?

Bob

On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <

time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

Hi,
Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take

more than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front
panel board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is -
why do that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the
counter with way less effort…..

Well, I have two reasons not to.
First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU

boards and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living
daylights out of my units before blowing off my investment.

Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I

have to many other projects to finish to learn something new.

Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it

seems the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on
the cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing
still was too hot.

IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high

interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it
will be a while before I can work on mine.

I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try

better 3 terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors,
install switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in
the top lid and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the
afore mentioned.

I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it

working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I
will find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before.
And when done I’ll tell the list how I did it.

Regards,
Perrier

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Some great comments and like all of you I like my 5370s and 5345s. Real buttons no mouse. Must be a throw back to the dark ages. Always knew about the fan issue on the 5370 and have added fans to my main operating unit. But it had not occurred to me that the way the front panel is laid out there may be little actual airflow across those chips. Thats quite a thought. So for those with working units that may be a completely seperate thread. How hot do they get? Then some solution for that. Essentially fix it before it dies. Then there is the question I posed. Skipping all of the details like adjustable slicing polarity and such. What is the minimum to get a signal into the counter as a way to return it to some usable service and certainly verify the bad frontend. Lets call this a poor but useful answer. >From that point it returns to this discussion. But a full new front panel. As Perry says most likely not. I do have 2 X5345s that I am pretty sure I need to dive into the front end on. My excuse other projects... Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 7:46 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > Ok, well let’s put some dimensions on it. > > Say that the new board for the counter costs $400 each. (and that’s > probably low). How many are people likely to buy? > > If so how much would you pay for a working 5370? > > Bob > > > > On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts < > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take > more than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front > panel board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is - > why do that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the > counter with way less effort….. > > Well, I have two reasons not to. > > First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU > boards and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living > daylights out of my units before blowing off my investment. > > Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I > have to many other projects to finish to learn something new. > > Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it > seems the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on > the cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing > still was too hot. > > IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high > interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it > will be a while before I can work on mine. > > I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try > better 3 terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, > install switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in > the top lid and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the > afore mentioned. > > I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it > working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I > will find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. > And when done I’ll tell the list how I did it. > > Regards, > > Perrier > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

DL

Don Latham

Wed, Jan 27, 2016 7:38 PM

Someone has already probably said, watch out for switching regulators. BTW,
almost all the Hp instruments I have from the 80's era run hot as heck. I have
put on fans and piggybacked more fins (and more fins, and more fins...). A
Military version of the 5328A counter I have has what sounds like a leaf
blower in it, with a proportional controller added.
If you do some work with switchers, I'm sure the list would be very interested!
Don

Don
Perry Sandeen via time-nuts

Hi,
Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more
than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel
board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is - why do
that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter
with way less effort…..
Well, I have two reasons not to.
First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards
and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out
of my units before blowing off my investment.
Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have
to many other projects to finish to learn something new.
Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems
the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the
cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still
was too hot.
IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high
interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will
be a while before I can work on mine.
I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3
terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install
switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid
and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned.
I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it
working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will
find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And
when done I’ll tell the list how I did it.
Regards,
Perrier

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things.
Virgil

"Noli sinere nothos te opprimere"

Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road
Huson, MT, 59846
mailing address: POBox 404
Frenchtown MT 59834-0404

VOX 406-626-4304
CEL 406-241-5093
Skype: buffler2
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

Someone has already probably said, watch out for switching regulators. BTW, almost all the Hp instruments I have from the 80's era run hot as heck. I have put on fans and piggybacked more fins (and more fins, and more fins...). A Military version of the 5328A counter I have has what sounds like a leaf blower in it, with a proportional controller added. If you do some work with switchers, I'm sure the list would be very interested! Don Don Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > Hi, > Wrote: Since the front end chips are mixed signal ASIC’s, it will take more > than a bit of time to replace them directly. Re-doing the entire front panel > board is the most likely way to “fix”the problem. The question is - why do > that at all? Just do a PC instrument that does the same thing as the counter > with way less effort….. > Well, I have two reasons not to. > First I have about $1800 invested in my 3 5370’s including the new CPU boards > and blowing that off is not in my budget. I’ll kludge the living daylights out > of my units before blowing off my investment. > Second, I haven’t the slightest clue on how to do a PC instrument and I have > to many other projects to finish to learn something new. > Also there was much discussion about A and B cooling in the past and it seems > the only things some did to their units was the addition of fan(s) on the > cooling fins. I had an external fan on a B I was running and the thing still > was too hot. > IMNSHO, I believe the front end chip failure is aggravated by the high > interior heat level. I’m committed to a number of other projects so it will > be a while before I can work on mine. > I’ll either rip the whole PS out and put it on another chassis, try better 3 > terminal regulators instead of the installed pass transistors, install > switching regulator PS’s in place of the original PS, cut holes in the top lid > and install 10 or 12 computer fans. Or a combination of the afore mentioned. > I don’t give a rat’s behind how it will look. I’m only interested in it > working properly. I’ve spent 50 years in the electronics industry and I will > find a way to skin this cat. I’ve done this to other equipment before. And > when done I’ll tell the list how I did it. > Regards, > Perrier > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil ------------------------------- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

BG

Bruce Griffiths

Wed, Jan 27, 2016 8:38 PM

Something like the attached schematic should suffice however an extra gain stage would probably be necessary to achieve the 100mV sensitivity.NB Vcc = 15V, Vee = -15V.
Bruce

On Thursday, 28 January 2016 5:02 AM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: