Empathy List Archives

MD

Magnus Danielson

Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:46 PM

Fellow time-nuts,

I have a few crystals that wakes up around 207-208 Hz hot on their 5
MHz. Anyone wants to take a stab at guessing what cut it is?

Cheers,
Magnus

Fellow time-nuts, I have a few crystals that wakes up around 207-208 Hz hot on their 5 MHz. Anyone wants to take a stab at guessing what cut it is? Cheers, Magnus

EB

Ed Breya

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:01 AM

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven is
cold, then I think it's AT cut.

Ed

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven is cold, then I think it's AT cut. Ed

MD

Magnus Danielson

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:40 AM

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote:

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven is
cold, then I think it's AT cut.

OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from them,
and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the
+41.4 ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut.

Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks
up. Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed
on all.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote: > If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven is > cold, then I think it's AT cut. OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from them, and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut. Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all. Cheers, Magnus

BC

Bob Camp

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:38 AM

Hi

It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven is running. Best bet is indeed AT.

Bob

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote:

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven is
cold, then I think it's AT cut.

OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from them, and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut.

Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all.

Cheers,
Magnus

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven is running. Best bet is indeed AT. Bob On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote: >> If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven is >> cold, then I think it's AT cut. > > OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from them, and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut. > > Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all. > > Cheers, > Magnus > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

BN

Bernd Neubig

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:47 PM

Hi,
IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the
lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means
that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up

same direction as for SC-cut crystals.

Regards

Bernd
DK1AG

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven
is running. Best bet is indeed AT.

Bob

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
wrote:

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote:

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven
is cold, then I think it's AT cut.

OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from them,

and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4
ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut.

Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up.

Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all.

Cheers,
Magnus

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi, IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up - same direction as for SC-cut crystals. Regards Bernd DK1AG -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Camp Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? Hi It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven is running. Best bet is indeed AT. Bob On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote: >> If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven >> is cold, then I think it's AT cut. > > OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from them, and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut. > > Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all. > > Cheers, > Magnus > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

BC

Bob Camp

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:39 PM

Hi

The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on
the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms
up.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bernd Neubig
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi,
IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the
lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means
that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up

same direction as for SC-cut crystals.

Regards

Bernd
DK1AG

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven
is running. Best bet is indeed AT.

Bob

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
wrote:

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote:

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven
is cold, then I think it's AT cut.

OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from them,

and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4
ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut.

Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up.

Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all.

Cheers,
Magnus

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms up. Bob -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bernd Neubig Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? Hi, IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up - same direction as for SC-cut crystals. Regards Bernd DK1AG -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Camp Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? Hi It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven is running. Best bet is indeed AT. Bob On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote: >> If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven >> is cold, then I think it's AT cut. > > OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from them, and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut. > > Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all. > > Cheers, > Magnus > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

BN

Bernd Neubig

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:54 PM

Hi Bob,

you are right. Sorry for my mistake.
FC (and some) IT cut crystals are used in OCXO, because the curvature around
the upper turn point is "flatter" than for an AT- cut with the same
turn-over temperature.
IT-cut crystals are sometimes used, when the oven temperature must be in the
range 95 to 100°C, because the operating temp of the OCXO must cover the
whole "industrial" temperature range up to 85°C.
The yield is higher than using SC-cut crystals for such applications.

Bernd

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 18:40
An: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on
the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms
up.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bernd Neubig
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi,
IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the
lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means
that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up

same direction as for SC-cut crystals.

Regards

Bernd
DK1AG

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven
is running. Best bet is indeed AT.

Bob

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
wrote:

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote:

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven
is cold, then I think it's AT cut.

OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from
them,

and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4
ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut.

Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up.

Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all.

Cheers,
Magnus

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Bob, you are right. Sorry for my mistake. FC (and some) IT cut crystals are used in OCXO, because the curvature around the upper turn point is "flatter" than for an AT- cut with the same turn-over temperature. IT-cut crystals are sometimes used, when the oven temperature must be in the range 95 to 100°C, because the operating temp of the OCXO must cover the whole "industrial" temperature range up to 85°C. The yield is higher than using SC-cut crystals for such applications. Bernd -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Camp Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 18:40 An: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? Hi The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms up. Bob -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bernd Neubig Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? Hi, IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up - same direction as for SC-cut crystals. Regards Bernd DK1AG -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Camp Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? Hi It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven is running. Best bet is indeed AT. Bob On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote: >> If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven >> is cold, then I think it's AT cut. > > OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from > them, and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut. > > Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all. > > Cheers, > Magnus > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

MD

Magnus Danielson

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:06 PM

Hi Bob and Bernd,

I don't know why I had you in mind for this question? :)

On 01/28/2013 10:54 PM, Bernd Neubig wrote:

Hi Bob,

you are right. Sorry for my mistake.
FC (and some) IT cut crystals are used in OCXO, because the curvature around
the upper turn point is "flatter" than for an AT- cut with the same
turn-over temperature.
IT-cut crystals are sometimes used, when the oven temperature must be in the
range 95 to 100°C, because the operating temp of the OCXO must cover the
whole "industrial" temperature range up to 85°C.
The yield is higher than using SC-cut crystals for such applications.

OK. It would be handy to have a list giving the 25°C frequency vs. the
nominal for the AT, BT, SC, FC and IT cuts, just as a handy short-hand.

The previous postings where not very clear, so I had to ask the stupid
question again.

Cheers,
Magnus

Bernd

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 18:40
An: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on
the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms
up.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bernd Neubig
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi,
IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the
lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means
that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up

same direction as for SC-cut crystals.

Regards

Bernd
DK1AG

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven
is running. Best bet is indeed AT.

Bob

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielsonmagnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
wrote:

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote:

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven
is cold, then I think it's AT cut.

OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from
them,

and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4
ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut.

Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up.

Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all.

Cheers,
Magnus

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Bob and Bernd, I don't know *why* I had you in mind for this question? :) On 01/28/2013 10:54 PM, Bernd Neubig wrote: > Hi Bob, > > you are right. Sorry for my mistake. > FC (and some) IT cut crystals are used in OCXO, because the curvature around > the upper turn point is "flatter" than for an AT- cut with the same > turn-over temperature. > IT-cut crystals are sometimes used, when the oven temperature must be in the > range 95 to 100°C, because the operating temp of the OCXO must cover the > whole "industrial" temperature range up to 85°C. > The yield is higher than using SC-cut crystals for such applications. OK. It would be handy to have a list giving the 25°C frequency vs. the nominal for the AT, BT, SC, FC and IT cuts, just as a handy short-hand. The previous postings where not very clear, so I had to ask the stupid question again. Cheers, Magnus > > Bernd > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im > Auftrag von Bob Camp > Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 18:40 > An: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' > Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? > > Hi > > The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on > the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms > up. > > Bob > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Bernd Neubig > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? > > Hi, > IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the > lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means > that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up > - same direction as for SC-cut crystals. > > Regards > > Bernd > DK1AG > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im > Auftrag von Bob Camp > Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39 > An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? > > Hi > > It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven > is running. Best bet is indeed AT. > > Bob > > On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson<magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> > wrote: > >> On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote: >>> If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven >>> is cold, then I think it's AT cut. >> >> OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from >> them, > and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 > ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut. >> >> Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. > Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

BC

Bob Camp

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:56 PM

Hi

The problem is that you wind up with a list that looks like:

AT 20 to 100 ppm
FC -20 to 60 ppm
IT -10 to 40 ppm
BT -40 to -60 ppm
SC ….

If you know the oven temperature, things can get narrowed down quite a bit. Don't take any of those numbers as exact.

Bob

On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:

Hi Bob and Bernd,

I don't know why I had you in mind for this question? :)

On 01/28/2013 10:54 PM, Bernd Neubig wrote:

Hi Bob,

you are right. Sorry for my mistake.
FC (and some) IT cut crystals are used in OCXO, because the curvature around
the upper turn point is "flatter" than for an AT- cut with the same
turn-over temperature.
IT-cut crystals are sometimes used, when the oven temperature must be in the
range 95 to 100°C, because the operating temp of the OCXO must cover the
whole "industrial" temperature range up to 85°C.
The yield is higher than using SC-cut crystals for such applications.

OK. It would be handy to have a list giving the 25°C frequency vs. the nominal for the AT, BT, SC, FC and IT cuts, just as a handy short-hand.

The previous postings where not very clear, so I had to ask the stupid question again.

Cheers,
Magnus

Bernd

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 18:40
An: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on
the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms
up.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bernd Neubig
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi,
IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the
lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means
that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up

same direction as for SC-cut crystals.

Regards

Bernd
DK1AG

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven
is running. Best bet is indeed AT.

Bob

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielsonmagnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
wrote:

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote:

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven
is cold, then I think it's AT cut.

OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from
them,

and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4
ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut.

Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up.

Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Hi The problem is that you wind up with a list that looks like: AT 20 to 100 ppm FC -20 to 60 ppm IT -10 to 40 ppm BT -40 to -60 ppm SC …. If you know the oven temperature, things can get narrowed down quite a bit. Don't take any of those numbers as exact. Bob On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > Hi Bob and Bernd, > > I don't know *why* I had you in mind for this question? :) > > On 01/28/2013 10:54 PM, Bernd Neubig wrote: >> Hi Bob, >> >> you are right. Sorry for my mistake. >> FC (and some) IT cut crystals are used in OCXO, because the curvature around >> the upper turn point is "flatter" than for an AT- cut with the same >> turn-over temperature. >> IT-cut crystals are sometimes used, when the oven temperature must be in the >> range 95 to 100°C, because the operating temp of the OCXO must cover the >> whole "industrial" temperature range up to 85°C. >> The yield is higher than using SC-cut crystals for such applications. > > OK. It would be handy to have a list giving the 25°C frequency vs. the nominal for the AT, BT, SC, FC and IT cuts, just as a handy short-hand. > > The previous postings where not very clear, so I had to ask the stupid question again. > > Cheers, > Magnus > >> >> Bernd >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im >> Auftrag von Bob Camp >> Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 18:40 >> An: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' >> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? >> >> Hi >> >> The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on >> the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms >> up. >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On >> Behalf Of Bernd Neubig >> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM >> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? >> >> Hi, >> IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the >> lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means >> that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up >> - same direction as for SC-cut crystals. >> >> Regards >> >> Bernd >> DK1AG >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im >> Auftrag von Bob Camp >> Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39 >> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? >> >> Hi >> >> It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven >> is running. Best bet is indeed AT. >> >> Bob >> >> On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson<magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> >> wrote: >> >>> On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote: >>>> If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven >>>> is cold, then I think it's AT cut. >>> >>> OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from >>> them, >> and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 >> ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut. >>> >>> Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. >> Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Magnus >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

BC

Bob Camp

Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:08 PM

Hi

Another variable - can you be sure the oven starts at 25C? Some of these cuts are running > 1 ppm / C in the vicinity of room temperature.

Bob

On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:

Hi Bob and Bernd,

I don't know why I had you in mind for this question? :)

On 01/28/2013 10:54 PM, Bernd Neubig wrote:

Hi Bob,

you are right. Sorry for my mistake.
FC (and some) IT cut crystals are used in OCXO, because the curvature around
the upper turn point is "flatter" than for an AT- cut with the same
turn-over temperature.
IT-cut crystals are sometimes used, when the oven temperature must be in the
range 95 to 100°C, because the operating temp of the OCXO must cover the
whole "industrial" temperature range up to 85°C.
The yield is higher than using SC-cut crystals for such applications.

OK. It would be handy to have a list giving the 25°C frequency vs. the nominal for the AT, BT, SC, FC and IT cuts, just as a handy short-hand.

The previous postings where not very clear, so I had to ask the stupid question again.

Cheers,
Magnus

Bernd

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 18:40
An: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on
the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms
up.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bernd Neubig
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi,
IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the
lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means
that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up

same direction as for SC-cut crystals.

Regards

Bernd
DK1AG

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Bob Camp
Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have?

Hi

It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven
is running. Best bet is indeed AT.

Bob

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielsonmagnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
wrote:

On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote:

If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven
is cold, then I think it's AT cut.

OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from
them,

and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4
ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut.

Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up.

Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all.

Cheers,
Magnus

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Another variable - can you be *sure* the oven starts at 25C? Some of these cuts are running > 1 ppm / C in the vicinity of room temperature. Bob On Jan 28, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > Hi Bob and Bernd, > > I don't know *why* I had you in mind for this question? :) > > On 01/28/2013 10:54 PM, Bernd Neubig wrote: >> Hi Bob, >> >> you are right. Sorry for my mistake. >> FC (and some) IT cut crystals are used in OCXO, because the curvature around >> the upper turn point is "flatter" than for an AT- cut with the same >> turn-over temperature. >> IT-cut crystals are sometimes used, when the oven temperature must be in the >> range 95 to 100°C, because the operating temp of the OCXO must cover the >> whole "industrial" temperature range up to 85°C. >> The yield is higher than using SC-cut crystals for such applications. > > OK. It would be handy to have a list giving the 25°C frequency vs. the nominal for the AT, BT, SC, FC and IT cuts, just as a handy short-hand. > > The previous postings where not very clear, so I had to ask the stupid question again. > > Cheers, > Magnus > >> >> Bernd >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im >> Auftrag von Bob Camp >> Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 18:40 >> An: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' >> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? >> >> Hi >> >> The only time I've seen them used in OCXO's both the FC and IT were run on >> the upper turn (just like an AT). Thus the frequency goes down as it warms >> up. >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On >> Behalf Of Bernd Neubig >> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM >> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? >> >> Hi, >> IT and FC cut crystals are not very often used in OCXO. But if, then the >> lower turn point is used (below the inflection temperature), which means >> that the cold oven starts at a lower frequency, which increases with warm-up >> - same direction as for SC-cut crystals. >> >> Regards >> >> Bernd >> DK1AG >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im >> Auftrag von Bob Camp >> Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2013 03:39 >> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] What cut do I have? >> >> Hi >> >> It could also be an AT, IT or FC cut. A lot depends on just how hot the oven >> is running. Best bet is indeed AT. >> >> Bob >> >> On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Magnus Danielson<magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> >> wrote: >> >>> On 01/28/2013 01:01 AM, Ed Breya wrote: >>>> If you meant to say the frequency starts out too high when the oven >>>> is cold, then I think it's AT cut. >>> >>> OK. I looked at the previous posts and it was not very clear from >>> them, >> and I was too lazy/busy to heat up an idel AT OCXO. I just felt the +41.4 >> ppm deviation was a little low for an AT cut. >>> >>> Meanwhile, out of 22 LPROs tested, only 3 has BITE error, so 19 locks up. >> Out of 4 cesiums tested, 3 locks up and one fails. Trimming needed on all. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Magnus >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

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What cut do I have?