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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

Re: [time-nuts] Cycling of Peltier junction

Hal Murray

Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:59 AM

Does anybody know about using the same Peltier junction for both
heating and cooling? I'm concerned about thermal/mechanical shock
when changing the polarity back-n-forth between hot and cold. Maybe
there needs to be a controlled ramp, if so then how do I figure out
the rate?

Not an issue.. there controllers that basically run AC through the thing,
changing the relative amplitude of positive and negative pulses.

That seems like an interesting way to waste power, but not my problem...

I think the OP was interested in thermal cycling of the Peltier unit at time
scales of an hour rather than PWM type rates.

Google found one web page that said, roughly:
Yes, it's bad, but we won't tell you how bad because it depends...
The issue was thermal stress on the solder joints.

One thing to watch out for is overheating the unit. Suppose you want to heat
the chamber, so you turn on the juice. If you are measuring temperature in
the chamber, there is nothing to keep you from overheating the Peltier unit.

I'd probably do something like take at least 5 minutes for a big temperature
swing, just to be nice to it. Also, I'd use thermal grease rather than epoxy.

Another approach is to ignore the problem and just replace the units if/when
they die. That could be a disaster for long term customer relations, but
might be appropriate for a home lab setup.

--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

>> Does anybody know about using the same Peltier junction for both >> heating and cooling? I'm concerned about thermal/mechanical shock >> when changing the polarity back-n-forth between hot and cold. Maybe >> there needs to be a controlled ramp, if so then how do I figure out >> the rate? > Not an issue.. there controllers that basically run AC through the thing, > changing the relative amplitude of positive and negative pulses. That seems like an interesting way to waste power, but not my problem... I think the OP was interested in thermal cycling of the Peltier unit at time scales of an hour rather than PWM type rates. Google found one web page that said, roughly: Yes, it's bad, but we won't tell you how bad because it depends... The issue was thermal stress on the solder joints. One thing to watch out for is overheating the unit. Suppose you want to heat the chamber, so you turn on the juice. If you are measuring temperature in the chamber, there is nothing to keep you from overheating the Peltier unit. I'd probably do something like take at least 5 minutes for a big temperature swing, just to be nice to it. Also, I'd use thermal grease rather than epoxy. Another approach is to ignore the problem and just replace the units if/when they die. That could be a disaster for long term customer relations, but might be appropriate for a home lab setup. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

Robert Atkinson

Fri, Sep 10, 2010 11:30 AM

The PCR machine manufacturers just let them fail and then (when out of warranty) replace the whole themal transfer block, peltiers and heatsink at vast expense!

Robert G8RPI.

--- On Fri, 10/9/10, Hal Murray hmurray@megapathdsl.net wrote:

From: Hal Murray hmurray@megapathdsl.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cycling of Peltier junction
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Friday, 10 September, 2010, 8:59

Not an issue.. there controllers that basically run AC through the thing,
changing the relative amplitude of positive and negative pulses.

That seems like an interesting way to waste power, but not my problem...

I think the OP was interested in thermal cycling of the Peltier unit at time
scales of an hour rather than PWM type rates.

Google found one web page that said, roughly:
Yes, it's bad, but we won't tell you how bad because it depends...
The issue was thermal stress on the solder joints.

I'd probably do something like take at least 5 minutes for a big temperature
swing, just to be nice to it. Also, I'd use thermal grease rather than epoxy.

Another approach is to ignore the problem and just replace the units if/when
they die. That could be a disaster for long term customer relations, but
might be appropriate for a home lab setup.

--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

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The PCR machine manufacturers just let them fail and then (when out of warranty) replace the whole themal transfer block, peltiers and heatsink at vast expense! Robert G8RPI. --- On Fri, 10/9/10, Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> wrote: From: Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cycling of Peltier junction To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Date: Friday, 10 September, 2010, 8:59 >> Does anybody know about using the same Peltier junction for both >> heating and cooling? I'm concerned about thermal/mechanical shock >> when changing the polarity back-n-forth between hot and cold. Maybe >> there needs to be a controlled ramp, if so then how do I figure out >> the rate? > Not an issue.. there controllers that basically run AC through the thing, > changing the relative amplitude of positive and negative pulses. That seems like an interesting way to waste power, but not my problem... I think the OP was interested in thermal cycling of the Peltier unit at time scales of an hour rather than PWM type rates. Google found one web page that said, roughly: Yes, it's bad, but we won't tell you how bad because it depends... The issue was thermal stress on the solder joints. One thing to watch out for is overheating the unit. Suppose you want to heat the chamber, so you turn on the juice. If you are measuring temperature in the chamber, there is nothing to keep you from overheating the Peltier unit. I'd probably do something like take at least 5 minutes for a big temperature swing, just to be nice to it. Also, I'd use thermal grease rather than epoxy. Another approach is to ignore the problem and just replace the units if/when they die. That could be a disaster for long term customer relations, but might be appropriate for a home lab setup. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.