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New-To-Me HP 5071A Questions

S
Stan
Thu, May 11, 2023 12:31 AM

Hello,

I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it
warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions:

  1. What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are
    displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of
    expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable than
    others.
  2. Which of these parameters give an indication of the health/remaining
    life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix
    3839A.
  3. The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to
    charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still
    available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH SLA
    batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will physically
    fit into the battery box?
  4. For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points for
    strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of one
    with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this?

Thanks,

Stan

Hello, I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions: 1. What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable than others. 2. Which of these parameters give an indication of the health/remaining life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix 3839A. 3. The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH SLA batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will physically fit into the battery box? 4. For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points for strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of one with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this? Thanks, Stan
PS
paul swed
Thu, May 11, 2023 2:12 AM

Stan I don't own a 5071. It sounds like you really did score a heck of a
nice piece of gear.
With respect to the batteries if original are available thats the way to
go. You should have the make and model number on the batteries.
If not then I firmly believe the same shape, AH, and size SLA will work.
Also I seem to remember you could connect an external battery. I had a 5071
here for 3 months a number of years ago. If substituting a battery the new
ones typically have the float voltage stamped on them or in the spec sheet.
Just check that the 5071 is operating at the right voltage. To low and
never fully charges. To high and you heat the battery. Both issues shorten
life and available current.
Congrats
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 8:58 PM Stan via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
wrote:

Hello,

I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it
warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions:

  1.  What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are
    

displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of
expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable than
others.
2.      Which of these parameters give an indication of the
health/remaining
life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix
3839A.
3.      The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to
charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still
available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH SLA
batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will physically
fit into the battery box?
4.      For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points for
strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of one
with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this?

Thanks,

Stan


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Stan I don't own a 5071. It sounds like you really did score a heck of a nice piece of gear. With respect to the batteries if original are available thats the way to go. You should have the make and model number on the batteries. If not then I firmly believe the same shape, AH, and size SLA will work. Also I seem to remember you could connect an external battery. I had a 5071 here for 3 months a number of years ago. If substituting a battery the new ones typically have the float voltage stamped on them or in the spec sheet. Just check that the 5071 is operating at the right voltage. To low and never fully charges. To high and you heat the battery. Both issues shorten life and available current. Congrats Paul WB8TSL On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 8:58 PM Stan via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Hello, > > > > I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it > warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions: > > > > 1. What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are > displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of > expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable than > others. > 2. Which of these parameters give an indication of the > health/remaining > life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix > 3839A. > 3. The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to > charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still > available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH SLA > batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will physically > fit into the battery box? > 4. For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points for > strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of one > with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this? > > > > Thanks, > > Stan > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >
HS
Harlan Stenn
Thu, May 11, 2023 2:42 AM

On 5/10/2023 5:31 PM, Stan via time-nuts wrote:

Hello,

I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it
warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions:

  1. What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are
    displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of
    expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable than
    others.
  2. Which of these parameters give an indication of the health/remaining
    life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix
    3839A.
  3. The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to
    charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still
    available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH SLA
    batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will physically
    fit into the battery box?

I have had enough bad luck with PowerSonic batteries that I no longer
buy them.  (In a UPS setting, they failed in under 6 months' time of
mild use, and the dealer was Useless on RMA.  I did not weigh the first
set of batteries, but the 2nd set were all under-weight.)  I have had
MUCH better luck with RainGroup batteries.  Maybe consider:

https://www.raiongroup.com/12v-2-3ah-rechargeable-sla-battery-with-agm-technology/

H

  1. For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points for
    strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of one
    with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this?

Thanks,

Stan


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

--
Harlan Stenn stenn@ntp.org, part of
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!

On 5/10/2023 5:31 PM, Stan via time-nuts wrote: > Hello, > > > > I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it > warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions: > > > > 1. What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are > displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of > expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable than > others. > 2. Which of these parameters give an indication of the health/remaining > life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix > 3839A. > 3. The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to > charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still > available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH SLA > batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will physically > fit into the battery box? I have had enough bad luck with PowerSonic batteries that I no longer buy them. (In a UPS setting, they failed in under 6 months' time of mild use, and the dealer was Useless on RMA. I did not weigh the first set of batteries, but the 2nd set were all under-weight.) I have had MUCH better luck with RainGroup batteries. Maybe consider: https://www.raiongroup.com/12v-2-3ah-rechargeable-sla-battery-with-agm-technology/ H -- > 4. For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points for > strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of one > with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this? > > > > Thanks, > > Stan > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > -- Harlan Stenn <stenn@ntp.org>, part of http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
TV
Tom Van Baak
Thu, May 11, 2023 3:54 AM

Hi Stan,

Well, that's the deal of a lifetime. Congratulations.

  1. Send us a copy of the readings. But mostly realize that the 5071A has
    a lot of internal operational integrity checks so if anything is out of
    order it will be the first to tell you. If the green LED is on you're
    good to go.

You can grab a digital summary of the readings by sending the
syst:print? command via the rs232 port. It looks something like this:

Freq Offset:          0e-15  Osc. control:     -6.14 %
RF amplitude 1:    27.9 %    RF amplitude 2:    26.3 %
Zeeman Freq:      39949 Hz   C-field curr:    12.170 mA
E-multiplier:      1318 V    Signal Gain:       14.4 %

CBT Oven:           5.7 V    CBT Oven Err:      0.04 C
Osc. Oven:         -8.9 V    Ion Pump:           0.4 uA
HW Ionizer:         1.0 V    Mass spec:         11.9 V
SAW Tuning:         1.0 V    DRO Tuning:         5.6 V
87MHz PLL:          0.9 V    uP Clock PLL:       2.6 V
+12V supply:       12.3 V    -12V supply:      -12.2 V
+5V  supply:        5.5 V    Thermometer:       43.5 C

You can also get some additional diagnostic information by setting the
logging mode to verbose and then watch the rs232 port during the
power-up self-diagnostic and warm-up process.

  1. There's no usage or life counter in the tube or the instrument so
    there's no obvious way to know if the tube is new or used, or if used
    once a year, or once a month, or continuously. The 10890A (standard
    performance) tube can last decades; the 10891A (high-performance) tube
    usually gets 7 years if used 24x7x365.

If you plan to run the standard continuously then pay attention to the
operating parameters by, say, logging them once an hour. Decline in
short-term ADEV or rise in E/M voltage are the usual warning signs of EOL.

  1. My recommendation is not to use the internal batteries. They are just
    a point of failure and decay. The 5071A already takes 120 VAC and/or 24
    VDC from the rear so there's glitch-free power redundancy. I usually
    supply 24 VDC from both a lab p.s. and backup batteries using a diode-OR.

If you really must use the internal batteries, last I checked you an
still buy the 12V modules pre-assembled. Alternatively you can refurbish
the ones you have. Each battery module contains six Hawker / Gates /
Enersys 2.5 Ah Cyclon batteries. Personally, given the value of a 5071A
(or especially its 10890A tube), I would not substitute with a random
SLA you have lying around. The Cyclon batteries are another level of
reliability.

A DIY repair of the battery modules is possible. A spot welder is the
right way but soldering works too. See page 57 of:

http://leapsecond.com/ptti2020/2020-PTTI-tvb-Atomic-Timekeeping-Hobby.pdf

  1. Yes, the hp strap fits that standard sized frame no problem but I've
    never seen someone use it because 5071A are so heavy (75 lbs). I don't
    even like to use the rack mount ears but instead just place the
    instrument on a shelf. The alternative mounting is...

http://leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/

/tvb

On 5/10/2023 5:31 PM, Stan via time-nuts wrote:

Hello,

I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it
warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions:

  1. What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are
    displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of
    expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable than
    others.
  2. Which of these parameters give an indication of the health/remaining
    life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix
    3839A.
  3. The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to
    charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still
    available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH SLA
    batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will physically
    fit into the battery box?
  4. For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points for
    strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of one
    with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this?

Thanks,

Stan

Hi Stan, Well, that's the deal of a lifetime. Congratulations. 1) Send us a copy of the readings. But mostly realize that the 5071A has a lot of internal operational integrity checks so if anything is out of order it will be the first to tell you. If the green LED is on you're good to go. You can grab a digital summary of the readings by sending the syst:print? command via the rs232 port. It looks something like this: Freq Offset:          0e-15  Osc. control:     -6.14 % RF amplitude 1:    27.9 %    RF amplitude 2:    26.3 % Zeeman Freq:      39949 Hz   C-field curr:    12.170 mA E-multiplier:      1318 V    Signal Gain:       14.4 % CBT Oven:           5.7 V    CBT Oven Err:      0.04 C Osc. Oven:         -8.9 V    Ion Pump:           0.4 uA HW Ionizer:         1.0 V    Mass spec:         11.9 V SAW Tuning:         1.0 V    DRO Tuning:         5.6 V 87MHz PLL:          0.9 V    uP Clock PLL:       2.6 V +12V supply:       12.3 V    -12V supply:      -12.2 V +5V  supply:        5.5 V    Thermometer:       43.5 C You can also get some additional diagnostic information by setting the logging mode to verbose and then watch the rs232 port during the power-up self-diagnostic and warm-up process. 2) There's no usage or life counter in the tube or the instrument so there's no obvious way to know if the tube is new or used, or if used once a year, or once a month, or continuously. The 10890A (standard performance) tube can last decades; the 10891A (high-performance) tube usually gets 7 years if used 24x7x365. If you plan to run the standard continuously then pay attention to the operating parameters by, say, logging them once an hour. Decline in short-term ADEV or rise in E/M voltage are the usual warning signs of EOL. 3) My recommendation is not to use the internal batteries. They are just a point of failure and decay. The 5071A already takes 120 VAC and/or 24 VDC from the rear so there's glitch-free power redundancy. I usually supply 24 VDC from both a lab p.s. and backup batteries using a diode-OR. If you really must use the internal batteries, last I checked you an still buy the 12V modules pre-assembled. Alternatively you can refurbish the ones you have. Each battery module contains six Hawker / Gates / Enersys 2.5 Ah Cyclon batteries. Personally, given the value of a 5071A (or especially its 10890A tube), I would not substitute with a random SLA you have lying around. The Cyclon batteries are another level of reliability. A DIY repair of the battery modules is possible. A spot welder is the right way but soldering works too. See page 57 of: http://leapsecond.com/ptti2020/2020-PTTI-tvb-Atomic-Timekeeping-Hobby.pdf 4) Yes, the hp strap fits that standard sized frame no problem but I've never seen someone use it because 5071A are so heavy (75 lbs). I don't even like to use the rack mount ears but instead just place the instrument on a shelf. The alternative mounting is... http://leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/ /tvb On 5/10/2023 5:31 PM, Stan via time-nuts wrote: > Hello, > > > > I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it > warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions: > > > > 1. What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are > displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of > expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable than > others. > 2. Which of these parameters give an indication of the health/remaining > life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix > 3839A. > 3. The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to > charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still > available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH SLA > batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will physically > fit into the battery box? > 4. For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points for > strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of one > with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this? > > > > Thanks, > > Stan >
SM
S McGrath
Thu, May 11, 2023 11:49 PM

The handles are an artifact of the HP series II cabinet all the side panels
are fitted with handle mounts.

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 11:47 PM paul swed via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Stan I don't own a 5071. It sounds like you really did score a heck of a
nice piece of gear.
With respect to the batteries if original are available thats the way to
go. You should have the make and model number on the batteries.
If not then I firmly believe the same shape, AH, and size SLA will work.
Also I seem to remember you could connect an external battery. I had a 5071
here for 3 months a number of years ago. If substituting a battery the new
ones typically have the float voltage stamped on them or in the spec sheet.
Just check that the 5071 is operating at the right voltage. To low and
never fully charges. To high and you heat the battery. Both issues shorten
life and available current.
Congrats
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 8:58 PM Stan via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
wrote:

Hello,

I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it
warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions:

  1.  What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are
    

displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of
expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable

than

others.
2.      Which of these parameters give an indication of the
health/remaining
life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix
3839A.
3.      The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to
charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still
available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH

SLA

batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will

physically

fit into the battery box?
4.      For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points

for

strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of

one

with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this?

Thanks,

Stan


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

The handles are an artifact of the HP series II cabinet all the side panels are fitted with handle mounts. On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 11:47 PM paul swed via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Stan I don't own a 5071. It sounds like you really did score a heck of a > nice piece of gear. > With respect to the batteries if original are available thats the way to > go. You should have the make and model number on the batteries. > If not then I firmly believe the same shape, AH, and size SLA will work. > Also I seem to remember you could connect an external battery. I had a 5071 > here for 3 months a number of years ago. If substituting a battery the new > ones typically have the float voltage stamped on them or in the spec sheet. > Just check that the 5071 is operating at the right voltage. To low and > never fully charges. To high and you heat the battery. Both issues shorten > life and available current. > Congrats > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 8:58 PM Stan via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I just scored an HP 5071A in excellent condition, and to my amazement it > > warms up and locks to the cesium as it should. Here are my questions: > > > > > > > > 1. What are the ideal values for the various parameters that are > > displayed on the LCD screen? The Symmetricom manual shows only a range of > > expected values, with no indication of which values are more desirable > than > > others. > > 2. Which of these parameters give an indication of the > > health/remaining > > life in the cesium tube? The tube is a 10890A, with serial number prefix > > 3839A. > > 3. The SLA batteries in my 5071A are essentially dead. I'm trying to > > charge them but do not hold out much hope. Are the OEM batteries still > > available? If not, can I substitute a couple of more generic 12V 2.5AH > SLA > > batteries, like the Power-Sonic PS-1220, assuming that they will > physically > > fit into the battery box? > > 4. For the trivia experts: it appears that there are attach points > for > > strap handles on the sides of the 5071A, but I've never seen a photo of > one > > with those handles installed. What is the reasoning behind this? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Stan > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com