Hi Time-Nuts: Not sure what the protocol is here but I'll just jump in. I've just purchased an HP53310a modulation domain analyzer. Most you already know that these amazing instruments are basically a TIC with a graphic display of frequency vs time. I've always wanted one to record PLL settling time. I also know they are pretty non-intuitive to setup and use. Now that I have one I'd like to connect with someone that has experience using them. Anyone? Best Regards to the group. Stuart Rumley 650-369-0575

Hi Stuart, Also contact Joe Geller, who was active on time-nuts some years ago, and who wrote the ultimate 53310a reference page: http://www.gellerlabs.com/hp53310a.htm /tvb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Rumley" <stuart@valontechnology.com> To: <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 9:21 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Newbie question > Hi Time-Nuts: > Not sure what the protocol is here but I'll just jump in. > > I've just purchased an HP53310a modulation domain analyzer. Most you already know that these amazing instruments are basically a TIC with a graphic display of frequency vs time. I've always wanted one to record PLL settling time. I also know they are pretty non-intuitive to setup and use. Now that I have one I'd like to connect with someone that has experience using them. > > Anyone? > > Best Regards to the group. > > > > Stuart Rumley

>Hi Time-Nuts: >Not sure what the protocol is here but I'll just jump in. >I've just purchased an HP53310a modulation domain analyzer. Most you already know that these amazing instruments are basically a TIC with a graphic display of frequency vs time. I've always wanted one to record PLL settling time. I also know they are pretty non-intuitive to setup and use. Now that I have one I'd like to connect with someone that has experience using them. >Anyone? >Best Regards to the group. >Stuart Rumley >650-369-0575 >Hi Stuart, >Also contact Joe Geller, who was active on time-nuts some years ago, and who wrote the ultimate 53310a reference page: http://www.gellerlabs.com/hp53310a.htm >/tvb One thing that Joe Geller doesn't mention is the fierce leakage from the power transformer. You may not notice it on a modern scope with LCD display, but my 53310A spewed so much field that it demolished the display on a Tek 2467B sitting nearby. I had to move the 53310A to a separate bench. Why it didn't seem to bother its own internal crt is a complete mystery. I'm sure it would bother a Rubidium. I found the 53310A to be a lot less useful than expected. There are other ways of making measurements that are easier and more accurate. Now, it just sits in a corner gathering dust. As far as measuring the PLL settling, you will need an external reference that you can frequency modulate. Depending on your requirements, it could be something simple like an RC oscillator with lots of phase noise, or two low phase noise OCXO's at slightly different frequencies with a digital mixer detecting the phase alignment and switching the signal to your PLL from one OCXO to the other. You can monitor the VCO DC error voltage to look for risetime and ringing problems. To monitor settling time, trigger the scope on the frequency switch, delay out to the desired region, and display the reference and VCO signals to the phase detector added together. If you use a triggered delay you can step from one cycle to the next and watch the signals align themselves. Depending on the skill of the designer, the PLL may exhibit jumps in phase during settling due to crosstalk, or many other kinds of nasties at different points in the phase relationship. If he did not monitor the PLL settling during development, there will likely be things you may not like. Bottom line is I much prefer looking at the VCO DC error and the inputs to the phase detector rather than trying to investigate these problems with the 53310A. The actual waveforms give a lot more information to work with. Mike Monett

>>Hi Time-Nuts: >>Not sure what the protocol is here but I'll just jump in. > >>I've just purchased an HP53310a modulation domain analyzer. Most you already know that these amazing instruments are basically a TIC with a graphic display of frequency vs time. I've always wanted one to record PLL settling time. I also know they are pretty non-intuitive to setup and use. Now that I have one I'd like to connect with someone that has experience using them. > >>Anyone? > >>Best Regards to the group. > >>Stuart Rumley [...] >You can monitor the VCO DC error voltage to look for risetime and ringing >problems. To monitor settling time, trigger the scope on the frequency >switch, delay out to the desired region, and display the reference and VCO >signals to the phase detector added together. If you use a triggered delay >you can step from one cycle to the next and watch the signals align >themselves. > >Depending on the skill of the designer, the PLL may exhibit jumps in phase >during settling due to crosstalk, or many other kinds of nasties at >different points in the phase relationship. If he did not monitor the PLL >settling during development, there will likely be things you may not like. >Bottom line is I much prefer looking at the VCO DC error and the inputs to >the phase detector rather than trying to investigate these problems with >the 53310A. The actual waveforms give a lot more information to work with. >Mike Monett One thing I did not mention is you can see things in the VFO DC error and phase jumps that do not show up in the 53310A. These can be serious and need to be addressed. Since there are many ways of making better measurements than the 53310A can provide, I will sell my unit on eBay. The prices can reach $3,795.00, but I will be happy with much less. Here are the current listings: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=hp+53310a&_sop=16 One thing that is very important is proper packaging for shipment. Here are some urls that discuss how to package heavy instruments for shipment. Sorry for the wrap: http://www.prc68.com/I/Pack.shtml http://gemmary.blogspot.ca/2007/07/how-to-pack-expensive-antique.html http://www.astromart.com/articles/article.asp?article_id=63 http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/how_to.html http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/how_to2.html http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/how_to3.html http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/how_to4.html http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines.html http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/weight_size.html http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml#mickiecat1 http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5991-0392EEE.pdf In addition, for those who are terrified by having to use Paypal due to the possibility of having your account and funds locked, it is no longer a requirement to use Paypal on eBay. You can use various credit card services such as Merchantinc, and specify on your eBay page that you do not accept Paypal. https://www.merchantinc.com/ For example, see the Payments: Visa/MasterCard, Discover entry on http://cgi.ebay.com/161599376831 No Paypal. Problem solved. So get out that old scope and microwave attenuator and make some money! Mike Monett