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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Considerations When Using The SR620

PD
Paul DeStefano
Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:24 PM

Volker,

That's a great question and I'm afraid I don't have a good answer 

for you.  If pressed, I would estimate less than 100ps.
The error of this measurement contributes to the error in our
final measurement which has many components.  I haven't worked out an
error budget for each contributor.  Our goal is a final error of less than
10ns.  But a few contributors are already expected to be around 1ns, so
this error really needs to be less than 1ns, preferably less than 100ps.

Cheers,
Paul

On Tuesday, 4 December 2012, Volker Esper wrote:

I agree. Since Paul want's to use an SR620 I presume he needs precision.
Otherwise almost any TIC with a fairly stable osc would do, for example
one with a battery backup. So I further presume that he needs nearly the
full accuracy / stability. But that's just speculation, surely Paul can
answere this question?

--
Paul DeStefano

Volker, That's a great question and I'm afraid I don't have a good answer for you. If pressed, I would estimate less than 100ps. The error of this measurement contributes to the error in our final measurement which has many components. I haven't worked out an error budget for each contributor. Our goal is a final error of less than 10ns. But a few contributors are already expected to be around 1ns, so this error really needs to be less than 1ns, preferably less than 100ps. Cheers, Paul On Tuesday, 4 December 2012, Volker Esper wrote: > I agree. Since Paul want's to use an SR620 I presume he needs precision. > Otherwise almost any TIC with a fairly stable osc would do, for example > one with a battery backup. So I further presume that he needs nearly the > full accuracy / stability. But that's just speculation, surely Paul can > answere this question? -- Paul DeStefano
VE
Volker Esper
Mon, Dec 17, 2012 4:07 PM

I'm curious, which way you went and which accuracy you achieved... :-)
Can you tell us?
Volker

Am 06.12.2012 19:10, schrieb Paul DeStefano:

On Tuesday, 4 December 2012, Tom Van Baak wrote:

We are using the SR620 to measure the interval between 1PPS signals from
two clocks. One is the Septentrio PolaRx4 GPS receiver and the other
is a
Rubidium clock.

Many Thanks,
Paul

  1. If you are making frequency measurements, the warm-up of the
    internal oscillator is the major factor limiting accuracy. ...
    Plotting digits of precision as a function of warm-up time would make
    a very educational graph you could tape to the top of your SR620.

  2. If you are making time interval measurements and using an external
    standard, the warm-up time will also affect the accuracy of your TI
    measurements, but to a far lesser degree. Here are informal results
    for TI (time interval) mode after a 5 minute power-down (see also
    attached plots):

  • if you need 1 ns accuracy, you can use the SR620 immediately after
    power-up
  • if you need 100 ps accuracy, wait 2+ minutes
  • if you need 10 ps accuracy, wait 15+ minutes
  • if you need 1 ps accuracy, you need a seriously stable lab
    environment or a different counter.

Given that you plan to use the SR620 with high-end GPS gear I would
suggest you try this quick experiment for yourself to see what your
SR620 does, with your inputs, in your environment. Your numbers
will come out different than mine; but the methodology is the same.
Your procedures can then be based on measurement and confidence
instead of guesswork and folklore.

Tom & Co.,

Thank you! These plots are excellent and will be very helpful. You are
quite right; we should do the test ourselves. We will definitely do
that. Obviously, there is not need to worry, as we can characterize the
instrument behavior ourselves, which is probably necessary anyway if
we're going to publish these measurements with error values.

Many Thanks,
Paul

I'm curious, which way you went and which accuracy you achieved... :-) Can you tell us? Volker Am 06.12.2012 19:10, schrieb Paul DeStefano: > On Tuesday, 4 December 2012, Tom Van Baak wrote: >>> We are using the SR620 to measure the interval between 1PPS signals from >>> two clocks. One is the Septentrio PolaRx4 GPS receiver and the other >>> is a >>> Rubidium clock. >>> >>> Many Thanks, >>> Paul >> 1) If you are making frequency measurements, the warm-up of the >> internal oscillator is the major factor limiting accuracy. ... >> Plotting digits of precision as a function of warm-up time would make >> a very educational graph you could tape to the top of your SR620. >> >> 2) If you are making time interval measurements and using an external >> standard, the warm-up time will also affect the accuracy of your TI >> measurements, but to a far lesser degree. Here are informal results >> for TI (time interval) mode after a 5 minute power-down (see also >> attached plots): >> >> - if you need 1 ns accuracy, you can use the SR620 immediately after >> power-up >> - if you need 100 ps accuracy, wait 2+ minutes >> - if you need 10 ps accuracy, wait 15+ minutes >> - if you need 1 ps accuracy, you need a seriously stable lab >> environment or a different counter. >> >> Given that you plan to use the SR620 with high-end GPS gear I would >> suggest you try this quick experiment for yourself to see what *your* >> SR620 does, with *your* inputs, in *your* environment. Your numbers >> will come out different than mine; but the methodology is the same. >> Your procedures can then be based on measurement and confidence >> instead of guesswork and folklore. > > Tom & Co., > > Thank you! These plots are excellent and will be very helpful. You are > quite right; we should do the test ourselves. We will definitely do > that. Obviously, there is not need to worry, as we can characterize the > instrument behavior ourselves, which is probably necessary anyway if > we're going to publish these measurements with error values. > > Many Thanks, > Paul >