If you're asking there's still a lot to investigate. We chartered a number of trawlers for a week or two at a time and discovered all the things we wanted and didn't want. If your investing 5-7 years then putting in a few weeks with charters will provide an abundance of information. Happy boating. Jim Hughes Money Yoga is Consciously Transforming People's Relationship with Money. Money Yoga Seminar Series In a message dated 2/19/2009 12:00:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com writes: Send Passagemaking-Under-Power mailing list submissions to passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com You can reach the person managing the list at passagemaking-under-power-owner@lists.samurai.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Passagemaking-Under-Power digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Selen or Kadey Krogen? (Barbara Wilkinson ) 2. Re: Selen or Kadey Krogen? (Anthony Thorne) 3. Re: Selen or Kadey Krogen? (John Marshall) 4. Re: Selene or Kadey Krogen? (Ron Rogers) 5. Selene or Kadey Krogen? (barbarawilkinson) 6. Re: Selen or Kadey Krogen? (Ken Williams) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:30:12 -0800 From: "Barbara Wilkinson " <xbrit@charter.net> Subject: [PUP] Selen or Kadey Krogen? To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <20090219013017.CZKK21772.mta31.charter.net@imp10> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Everyone! We are trying to decide between a Kadey Krogen 42 Widebody (later model) or a Selene 47 2000 model. Our planned 5-7 year cruise would be from Alaska, down the West Coast & Mexico, through the Panama Canal into the Carib, a side trip to Guatemala, up to Florida and then probably at least half of the Loop. From there we'd like to go to Holland and take the route to the Black Sea, Aegean & Med. (Atlantic crossing probably by Tanker delivery!). We are concentrating on long range blue-water pilothouse/trawlers with low bridge clearances. The Nordhavns seems to have high stacks and almost no cockpit. Although they are awesome boats, they don't seem to be compatible with our need to live mostly on the decks! Is the Kadey Krogen hull design really superior? Is the hull of the Selene 47 sufficient for the waters we plan on cruising? We love both boats and can see why owners fall in love with both of them! Would anyone like to join a discussion on this? Our last boat was a Marine Trader, but this time we're serious! Barb & Don Reno, Nevada. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:10:12 -0800 From: Anthony Thorne <ajpenn42@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PUP] Selen or Kadey Krogen? To: Barbara Wilkinson <xbrit@charter.net> Cc: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com Message-ID: <ec8f340d0902181910w5f8863d1nf9881660b541f1bc@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You are looking at two very different types of cruising, tropical and north of 30. 2 very different boat configurations. Cockpits are not really that useable, at sea they are cold and stinky, in port that are suntraps. If I was going to sea like that I would opt Nordhavn or Kady K but both with active stabilizers. Best of Luck Carmen La Paz Mexico On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Barbara Wilkinson <xbrit@charter.net>wrote: > Hi Everyone! > > > > We are trying to decide between a Kadey Krogen 42 Widebody (later model) or > a Selene 47 2000 model. Our planned 5-7 year cruise would be from Alaska, > down the West Coast & Mexico, through the Panama Canal into the Carib, a > side trip to Guatemala, up to Florida and then probably at least half of > the > Loop. From there we'd like to go to Holland and take the route to the > Black > Sea, Aegean & Med. (Atlantic crossing probably by Tanker delivery!). > > > > We are concentrating on long range blue-water pilothouse/trawlers with low > bridge clearances. The Nordhavns seems to have high stacks and almost no > cockpit. Although they are awesome boats, they don't seem to be compatible > with our need to live mostly on the decks! Is the Kadey Krogen hull design > really superior? Is the hull of the Selene 47 sufficient for the waters we > plan on cruising? We love both boats and can see why owners fall in love > with both of them! > > > > Would anyone like to join a discussion on this? Our last boat was a Marine > Trader, but this time we're serious! > > > > Barb & Don > > Reno, Nevada. > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:22:05 -0800 From: John Marshall <johnamar1101@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PUP] Selen or Kadey Krogen? To: Anthony Thorne <ajpenn42@gmail.com> Cc: Barbara Wilkinson <xbrit@charter.net>, passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com Message-ID: <5F5CB773-3A0F-4B92-ACA0-FDAE142DD58B@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes A cockpit on a boat with a wet exhaust is uninhabitable underway, IMHO. I find inhaling diesel fumes contributes to sea sickness. However, with a dry stack, cockpits are great places to get a breath of fresh air when underway, although there is little sense in making them too big. You aren't going to have a dinner party out there while underway. Once we're at the dock or at anchor, the covered flybridge is where we socialize when the weather is good. Its airy, its big, its up high and has a great view and cool breezes. Or we set up a table and chairs on the boat deck. Bottom line, the cockpit is the least used area of our boat. It's just my personal preference, but I'd always keep the cockpit small and use that space for the salon. John Marshall Pacific Northwest On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:10 PM, Anthony Thorne wrote: > You are looking at two very different types of cruising, tropical > and north > of 30. 2 very different boat configurations. Cockpits are not really > that > useable, at sea they are cold and stinky, in port that are suntraps. > If I > was going to sea like that I would opt Nordhavn or Kady K but both > with > active stabilizers. > > Best of Luck > > Carmen > La Paz Mexico > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Barbara Wilkinson > <xbrit@charter.net>wrote: > >> Hi Everyone! >> >> >> >> We are trying to decide between a Kadey Krogen 42 Widebody (later >> model) or >> a Selene 47 2000 model. Our planned 5-7 year cruise would be from >> Alaska, >> down the West Coast & Mexico, through the Panama Canal into the >> Carib, a >> side trip to Guatemala, up to Florida and then probably at least >> half of >> the >> Loop. From there we'd like to go to Holland and take the route to >> the >> Black >> Sea, Aegean & Med. (Atlantic crossing probably by Tanker delivery!). >> >> >> >> We are concentrating on long range blue-water pilothouse/trawlers >> with low >> bridge clearances. The Nordhavns seems to have high stacks and >> almost no >> cockpit. Although they are awesome boats, they don't seem to be >> compatible >> with our need to live mostly on the decks! Is the Kadey Krogen >> hull design >> really superior? Is the hull of the Selene 47 sufficient for the >> waters we >> plan on cruising? We love both boats and can see why owners fall >> in love >> with both of them! >> >> >> >> Would anyone like to join a discussion on this? Our last boat was >> a Marine >> Trader, but this time we're serious! >> >> >> >> Barb & Don >> >> Reno, Nevada. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power >> >> To unsubscribe send email to >> passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word >> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. >> >> Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World >> Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions. > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:14:38 -0500 From: "Ron Rogers" <rcrogers6@kennett.net> Subject: Re: [PUP] Selene or Kadey Krogen? To: "'Anthony Thorne'" <ajpenn42@gmail.com>, "'Barbara Wilkinson'" <xbrit@charter.net> Cc: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com Message-ID: <001a01c99248$952af1d0$bf80d570$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Having seen a man almost thrown out (he hit and grabbed the door jamb) of a KK42's pilothouse by a passing sportfisherman on the Severn River, I can attest that they roll like crazy. Most KK42's have foam core from the waterline up. Some have foam all the way to the keel. Late models are solid fiberglass. They need a well-reinforced active stabilizer installation costing about $40,000. Slow trawlers need large fin area stabilizers like the Naiad 252 or equivalent. The wooden doors on older KK42's are not adequate for ocean service and I am not interested in those who have ventured-forth successfully with them. Otherwise they are seaworthy and commodious boats with good storage and a basement. Goods placed in the basement would have to be in waterproof wrapping. The vessels of its era did not come equipped with ocean crossing in mind. They look great. I have only seen one Selene up close and it was a 53 and beautiful. It had twin Cummins engines. Unlike KK yachts (the newer ones are of even higher quality) the Selenes do not appear to have a full displacement hull as the after section flattens out. Some owners think that they are full-displacement and Selene has made the forward hull "deeper." Selenes also require adaptation for ocean voyaging, A key factor in both brands is their range with existing fuel tanks at say 6 knots. These are dramatically different boats. The Nordhavn 46 comes closer to the KK42 conceptually, but is a proven world-circling full-displacement trawler and they usually have either or both active and passive stabilization. Be sure that crossing the Atlantic is in your future. You mention crossing as deck cargo so that would subtract most of the North Atlantic, but the coast of Europe is the Atlantic and the Med (Mare Nostrum) and is not tame. Any of these boats would be comfortable as canal cruisers, although most would have to fold down their masts. Ron Rogers -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Thorne You are looking at two very different types of cruising, tropical and north of 30. 2 very different boat configurations. Cockpits are not really that useable, at sea they are cold and stinky, in port that are suntraps. If I was going to sea like that I would opt Nordhavn or Kady K but both with active stabilizers. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:26:55 -0800 From: "barbarawilkinson" <barbarawilkinson@charter.net> Subject: [PUP] Selene or Kadey Krogen? To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <20090219012700.MUKG25639.aarprv04.charter.net@youra9279112e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Everyone! We are trying to decide between a Kadey Krogen 42 Widebody (later model) or a Selene 47 2000 model. Our planned 5-7 year cruise would be from Alaska, down the West Coast & Mexico, through the Panama Canal into the Carib, a side trip to Guatemala, up to Florida and then probably at least half of the Loop. From there we'd like to go to Holland and take the route to the Black Sea, Aegean & Med. (Atlantic crossing probably by Tanker delivery!). We are concentrating on long range blue-water pilothouse/trawlers with low bridge clearances. The Nordhavns seems to have high stacks and almost no cockpit. Although they are awesome boats, they don't seem to be compatible with our need to live mostly on the decks! Is the Kadey Krogen hull design really superior? Is the hull of the Selene 47 sufficient for the waters we plan on cruising? We love both boats and can see why owners fall in love with both of them! Would anyone like to join a discussion on this? Our last boat was a Marine Trader, but this time we're serious! Barb & Don Reno, Nevada. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:14:13 -0700 From: "Ken Williams" <ken@kensblog.com> Subject: Re: [PUP] Selen or Kadey Krogen? To: "'Barbara Wilkinson '" <xbrit@charter.net>, <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <00c401c99237$c2c95200$485bf600$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "... We are trying to decide between a Kadey Krogen 42 Widebody (later model) or a Selene 47 2000 model.... The Nordhavns seems to have high stacks and almost no cockpit. Although they are awesome boats, they don't seem to be compatible with our need to live mostly on the decks! ..." Barb & Don: It might be beyond your budget, and possibly a waste of time, but before giving up on Nordhavn, you might want to check out the used Nordhavn 62 market. There is an extreme amount of exterior deck space, and it's a pretty tough world out there right now. My guess is that an old N62 could be picked up cheaper than you think, and that sellers will grumble a lot, but take seriously offers that they would have laughed at a year ago. -Ken Williams Nordhavn 68, Sans Souci (former N62 owner) PS That said, I haven't actually looked to see if any of the older N62s are for sale... ------------------------------ ________________________________________________ Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List End of Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 51, Issue 9 ******************************************************** _ (http://www.moneyyogaseminar.com/) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! 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