Re: [PUP] Fantale
Thank you Patrick for your informative feedback.
We researched that there is 3500 pounds of ballast in the keel which keeps
the motion gentle and gives a righting moment past 120 angle of heel. I'm not
sure if this ballast was increased as the designer suggested.
We were also told that the Transworld 50' Fantale Trawler burns approx. 25
gallons a day with a range of about 1,700 miles.
Your feedback was extremely helpful about the roll. This is a concern
especially since the boat had passive stabilizers added a few years ago. As you can
imagine it will be challenging to experience the roll during the inspection
and buying process. This is a concern right now.
The appointments, hull materials, mechanicals all appear as you suggest
first class. Especially since the boat seems to have been loved.
Again, we really appreciate your feedback and now have some serious
considerations to resolve.
Jim Hughes
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:13:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Patrick Gerety alohaboat@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [PUP] Fantail
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Message-ID: 755042.17265.qm@web35904.mail.mud.yahoo.com
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----- Original Message ----
From: "Highlan875@aol.com"
Highlan875@aol.com
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent:
Tuesday, December 23, 2008 8:35:22 AM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Fantale
Any
feedback on the fan tale design trawler? IE: TransWorld.
Better known as the
Fantail 50 trawler. These boats were built in Taiwan at the Transworld
yard.
They were beautifully appointed and nicely finished. All the materials and
equipment aboard were first class. They have a lot of neat details like a
hot
and cold sink in the engine room for washing up after servicing the systems
there. As I recall, there were only 10 or 11 of them built. The biggest
problem with the full displacement hull is that it is almost completely round
in cross section (very little turn at the chine). They got the reputation
for
being very rolly even while at the dock. I was on one at a boat show several
years ago and there were about 6 or 7 people aboard and you had to hold onto
something even while tied to the dock. They do not carry enough fuel to be a
serious open ocean cruiser. They are best suited as a coastal cruiser. In
my opinion, they require active fin stabilizers while under way and flopper
stoppers while at anchor for stability. If you want to pursue long distance
cruising, you will have to figure out how to add more fuel capacity (but that
would further complicate the hydro dynamics). I talked to the designer of
the
Fantail 50, the marine illustrator Steve Davis, and he felt the boat would
benefit from more ballast. As you can see, all of these considerations
starts
to involve a complete redesign of the hull.
I really love the design and
finish of this boat. I seriously con_sidered purchasing one about 10 or 12
years ago. However, the drawbacks mentioned above made me look for
alternatives. I'm happy I did.
Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
La Paz, MX
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Jim,
The likelihood that the Fantail 50 will have positive stability anywhere
near 120 degrees of heel is slim to impossible. Typical sailing yachts of
these (50' by 15.33') dimensions would have an angle of vanishing stability
of about 110 degrees. These are boats with substantial (and deep) outside
ballast keels and no high deckhouse. In this size boat 3500 pounds of
ballast is a drop in the bucket, four times that might start to make a
difference in VCG height. But still the boat is so shallow that the ballast
can't be very deep. The shallow draft, wide beam, and high deckhouse will
add up to an angle of vanishing stability of approximately 80 degrees.
When anyone states stability data they must show some documentation,
otherwise it's just sales talk. The stability data must show a curve of
righting arms at a given displacement and VCG height. Usually stability
curves are given at several "load conditions". The first load condition
might be "light ship", this is the complete boat without stores, crew,
liquids, or owner's items aboard. The second condition should be departure
or full load. This is the complete boat with everything aboard including
all tanks (except black and grey water) full. Normally this is the heaviest
(largest displacement) and lowest VCG, thus the highest stability. The final
load condition is "worst case" or arrival condition. In this case the tanks
are at 10 percent, stores are depleted, but crew and owner's items are
aboard. This means the boat is floating high in the water with a high VCG.
Worst case stability is the final criteria.
The stability of your boat safeguards the lives of you and your crew, thus
it is worth paying attention to. The correct data for your boat can only be
ascertained by the input of proven information. The vertical height of G,
the center of gravity for the entire boat, is subject to much guessing.
This is done because actually measuring the height of G is an elaborate
undertaking. It is done by conducting what's called an "Inclining
Experiment". This involves heeling your boat with controlled weights moved
a measured distance and taking measurements of the angle. This data along
with the hull lines and current floatation are the inputs required to arrive
at real stability that applies to your actual boat. It is not good enough to
state that an inclining has been done on another similar boat. These boats
are now 20 years old and many changes (additions) have occurred. There may
also be hidden differences in construction that can throw data off.
The Fantail 50 has always appeared to me to be an unhappy vessel, to my eye
they appear top heavy with too large and high a deckhouse. Also someone
miscalculated the weights and they all appear noticeably down by the stern.
Be aware that fuel consumption will be quite a bit more than 25 gpd at 8
knots, perhaps double that. To get the 1700 miles you will need to slow
down to 6 knots or less.
All the best,
Tad Roberts
www.tadroberts.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Highlan875@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 8:09 AM
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PUP] Fantale
We researched that there is 3500 pounds of ballast in the keel which keeps
the motion gentle and gives a righting moment past 120 angle of heel. I'm
not
sure if this ballast was increased as the designer suggested.
We were also told that the Transworld 50' Fantale Trawler burns approx. 25
gallons a day with a range of about 1,700 miles.
Jim Hughes
----- Original Message ----
From: "Highlan875@aol.com"
Highlan875@aol.com
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent:
Wednesday, December 24, 2008 9:09:16 AM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Fantale
We
researched that there is 3500 pounds of ballast in the keel which keeps
the
motion gentle and gives a righting moment past 120 angle of heel. I'm not
sure if this ballast was increased as the designer suggested.
Jim, I
believe that the righting moment of 120 deg. and 1700 mile range are,
unfortunately, sales hyperbole in my opinion. The Fantail 50 is listed at
42,500 lbs disp. 3500 lbs ballast would be a ballast/displacement ratio of
8%. My boat has a ballast/displcement ratio of 21%. I don't have 120 deg.
stability. Ballast/displacement ratio is NOT the absolute indicator of
stability, but only one of many factors to consider.
The ballast was never
increased during the production of the Fantail 50. The designer told me he
tought the ballast should have been increased several years after it went out
of production.
We were also told that the Transworld 50' Fantale Trawler
burns approx. 25
gallons a day with a range of about 1,700 miles.
Well
let's run those numbers. The Fantail 50 lists fuel capacity at 520 gallons.
If you divide 520 by 25, you have 20.8 days till all empty. 20.8 days is
499.2 hours. If you cover 1700 miles in 499.2 hours, then you have an average
speed of 3.4 knots!
Let's figure it another way. If you divide 1700 by 520
fuel capacity you get 3.3 nautical mpg. If you burn 25/24 or 1.04 gph,
then multiple 3.3 x 1.04 and again you come up with 3.4 knots!
These numbers
are theortically possible but 3.4 knots in a trawler is little more than
drifting with the currents.
My gut feeling is that you will get about a 1200
to 1400 mile range at 6 to 6.5 knots with no generator or stabilizers,
burning about 2.5 to 3 gallons per hour, or 70 gal. per day. Running
stabilizers and a generator could reduce these numbers.
Again, we really
appreciate your feedback and now have some serious
considerations to
resolve.
Jim, I am not trying to talk you out of this boat. I just want you
to have realistic expectations before plunking your money down. This may be
the perfect boat for you, but be informed of its capabilities and limitations.
Good fortune
Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
La Paz, MX