Some of these comments really bother me, Scott, especially D, "If it ain't
broke, don't fix it".

Are you saying you don't do preventative maintenance,
preferring for something to break before you replace it? They don't break
sitting at the dock! One of the first things I did on my 15 year old (when I
bought it) Krogen was to replace everything rubber on the engine. Belts,
hoses, impeller, etc. I saved all the old ones and they can be pressed into
service at any time, although starting with new ones, I hopefully won't need
them. I replaced every rubber hose from a seacock with new, wire reinforced
hose. I know all that stuff is good. I wasn't about to wait for an old rotted
hose to break off while underway in the ocean. Also, if you're scared of
working on your systems while at the dock, what do you plan to do underway in
a rolling sea in a hot engine room? If you're not comfortable working on every
system on your boat, you have no business being out in the ocean.

You have
to use what I posted with some common sense. Of course you wouldn't take a
brand new boat and start replacing things. But an older boat... that's a
different story.

C. Who said anything about selling spares? That's a sunk
cost, and you shouldn't expect to strip the boat and sell all the spares.
Whether they're used or not, you might get 50 cents on the dollar for ew ones,
and less for used ones. Except in rare cases, the price you get for your boat
will be the price that the cheapest boat like yours just sold for. Most people
don't care about how well it's maintained, spares, etc... they just look on
the various sites and say "hey, that (insert brand here) sold for $xx. That's
all I'll give you. Occasionally you MIGHT find somebody who really appreciates
good  maintenance, but it's rare. If you're buying spares as an investment for
resale, you're barking up the wrong tree.

B. You're right, time is always a
challenge. But if you rush out into the unknown unprepared, Mother Nature will
smite you at a most inopportune time. Again, see comments on new boats vs.
older boats.

A. The advice I received and passed on seeks to change this
paradigm. If you want to run your boat until it fails, then figure out if you
have the right part, tools, knowledge, etc. Go right on ahead. Not my
preference. These failures never occur while sitting at the dock or in a nice
safe anchorage. They happen when you least expect them and can ill-afford
them.

I'm not being combative here, I just really shook my head at some of
these philosophies.

----- Original Message ----
From: Scott Bulger
scottebulger@gmail.com
<minimal snipping>

I'm not sure I agree completely
with the advice "If you have a spare,
install it".

While there are certainly
benefits to this approach, I can think of a few
reasons NOT to take this
advice carte blanche.

a.  Spares are by their definition a replacement for a
failed component.
They aren't consumables like filters and such.  When
installed you now have
to do something with the previously in service
component.  If it exposed to
the oil and fuel systems it needs to be cleaned,
greased and repackaged for
storage.  If you used your spare gasket to install
the spare component, your
now left with a used component and a used or useless
gasket.

b.  Time preparing for an adventure like this is always a
challenge.  Taking
time to replace perfectly good components may take away
from time you need
to accomplish other important details.  An argument could
be made that if
the spare would never have been used you did work you may
never have had to
perform, very inefficient.

c.  When you sell your boat your
spares kit may be appropriate for your next
boat (possible but unlikely).
Regardless the presence or absence of your
spares kit isn't going to influence
the price a buyer is going to offer you.
A prudent seller may show the boat
and make reference to the spares kit
(demonstrating an approach to maintenance
and readiness that makes a buyer
happy) but then NOT sell it with the boat.
Piecing it out on EBAY may yield
a 50 or 75% return on the invested parts,
rather than giving them away as
part of a boat sale.  Who knows, maybe the
boat buyer would be the top
bidder?  If these spares were previously
installed, they are worth much
less.

d.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Anytime your working in and around an
electrical system you run the risk of
breaking wires or damaging components.
I recently had the oil pressure sending
unit wire break because the diesel
engine mechanic was doing a valve timing
job and got a bit close to the
wiring harness.  Now you can argue that having
it fail now was a good thing
and that its better to have it happen under
controlled circumstances, but
there are innumerable failures that could be
induced that would make this
statement untrue.  Also you could introduce the
beginning of a failure that
doesn't surface for some time.

In summary, I
believe this is sage advice within reason.  A prudent person
might look and
insure they have a complete set of tools to perform the job,
but as was noted
you really don't know until you do it.  Do I have a
serpentine belt tensioner?
No, but I have a Zyliss portable vice that can
be pressed into service to do
the same thing, hopefully.  Am I going to open
up my Northern Lights 8kw
genset and install my replacement raw water pump?
No, I'm going to go wire my
Airmar ultrasonic weather station!

Of course, some may ask, why spend the
time on this email?  Because it helps
me organize my thoughts and serves as
fuel for our blog:
www.alanui.talkspot.com

As always, this advice is worth
what you paid for it  ;)

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA

I seem to have struck a nerve?  If so, I apologise.

Keith:  Some of these comments really bother me, Scott, especially D, "If it
ain't
broke, don't fix it".

Are you saying you don't do preventative maintenance,
preferring for something to break before you replace it?

Scott:  Gee, I didn't think that's that I was saying?  I thought what I said
was I wouldn't go replacing perfectly good parts just because I had a spare
I could throw in its place.  The availability of a spare, in and of itself
is poor justification to go turning wrenches in your engine room.

Keith:  They don't break sitting at the dock!

Scott:  Really?  I thought more boats sunk at the dock then at sea?  I
assume something broke to sink them

    From http://www.oceanmarineservices.com/why_do_boats_sink.htm  " In

a recent study by a well-known marine insurance company of 150 sinking
claims, several interesting statistics were brought to light. Probably the
most interesting is the fact that for every boat that sinks while underway,
four boats sink at the dock in their slips."

Keith:  One of the first things I did on my 15 year old (when I bought it)
Krogen
was to replace everything rubber on the engine. Belts,
hoses, impeller, etc. I saved all the old ones and they can be pressed into
service at any time, although starting with new ones, I hopefully won't need
them. I replaced every rubber hose from a seacock with new, wire reinforced
hose. I know all that stuff is good. I wasn't about to wait for an old
rotted
hose to break off while underway in the ocean.

Scott:  Good on you, I would have done the same.  However I have spare hose
for some of my through hulls.  Would you advocate me replacing them on my
2.5yo Nordhavn?  As you said, we need to apply common sense and I was taking
exception with the Carte Blanche statement "if you have spares, install
them".  Question, do you have spares above and beyond the 15yo parts you
de-installed?

Keith:  Also, if you're scared of working on your systems while at the dock,
what do you plan to do underway in
a rolling sea in a hot engine room?

Scott:  Gee, since I just spent two hours trying to get the 0 degree fin
alignment on my TRAC stabilizer back to perfect I hope you agree I'm not
afraid to work on my systems at the dock.

Keith:  If you're not comfortable working on every
system on your boat, you have no business being out in the ocean.

Scott:  Oh, I'd truly be lying if I said I was comfortable working on every
system on the boat.  There are things that scare the crap out of me.  I've
never been "comfortable" working around electricity and water.  I guess
anytime I'm doing something that can kill me or someone else I never get
"comfortable".  My intuition is the level of caution and concern that I feel
is the defense system in my brain attempting to keep me alive.  Another set
of systems that make me "nervous" is hydraulics.  Knowing the fins on my
boat are operating at thousands of pounds of force generates great respect
from me.  I did watch the tech work on the fins over the last day or two,
mostly so I could see the pros do it and gain the confidence to do some of
it myself.  That's what led me to try to align the fins today better than
the tech could.  I improved it significantly, but honestly it's still not
"perfect".  Another point:  How to you get the necessary experience to go
out in the ocean without going out in the ocean?  One of the great
challenges in this activity is building knowledge, skill and experience as
we broaden our boating activities.  As a former hangglider pilot I can tell
you that by far the biggest challenge was adding skill and experience
without going too far.  Go too far and you die, ask my brother, oh that's
right, you can't he went too far and he died.  Boating is similar.  Do I
feel ready to cross the Pacific?  No, so I changed my itinerary to a near
coastal route with some multi day/night trips.  Do I feel anxious about some
of the legs of this journey?  You bet I do.  However if I let this concern
and anxiety stop me from going I'd still be on a lake in Seattle.  Instead
I'm trying to strike a balance between expanding my experience and being
safe.  This whole maintenance discussion is part of that.  Buying a Nordhavn
was part of that.  I clearly lacked the knowledge and experience to
commission a boat, so I went with one that was designed to do the job.  75%
of the capability for this trip is engineered into the boat.  It's my job to
augment that with knowledge of weather, communications, maintenance, money
and will.  I'm digressing, the point I wanted to make was many may think I
have no business being out in the ocean, but I'd suggest I, and many others,
are doing everything they can to get this knowledge and experience to be out
in the ocean.  Thoughtful exchange of ideas is a critical enabler for many
people.

Keith:  You have
to use what I posted with some common sense. Of course you wouldn't take a
brand new boat and start replacing things. But an older boat... that's a
different story.

Scott:  then the guy doing the presentation should have qualified his
statement.  As I attempted to do.

Keith:  C. Who said anything about selling spares?

Scott:  I did

Keith:  That's a sunk
cost, and you shouldn't expect to strip the boat and sell all the spares.
Whether they're used or not, you might get 50 cents on the dollar for ew
ones,
and less for used ones.

Scott:  My point exactly.  If you saw the price tag on my spares kit and
boat tid bits I think you would agree with me.  I could buy a 2003 Ford F150
with the tax free cost recovery on those parts.

Keith:  Except in rare cases, the price you get for your boat
will be the price that the cheapest boat like yours just sold for. Most
people
don't care about how well it's maintained,

Scott:  Oh, I disagree with that.

Keith:  spares, etc... they just look on
the various sites and say "hey, that (insert brand here) sold for $xx.
That's
all I'll give you. Occasionally you MIGHT find somebody who really
appreciates
good  maintenance, but it's rare. If you're buying spares as an investment
for
resale, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Scott:  I buy spares as spares, in case something breaks.  I buy and install
consumable replacement parts and follow the manufactures maintenance specs
to the letter.  I just had a 500 hour engine alignment and valve adjustment.
I suspect 75% of new boat owners are not even aware your suppose to do this?
My point about spares and installation has nothing to do with the
maintenance we should all be doing.

Keith:  B. You're right, time is always a
challenge. But if you rush out into the unknown unprepared, Mother Nature
will
smite you at a most inopportune time. Again, see comments on new boats vs.
older boats.

Scott:  I hope my year and a half of preparing for this takes me out of the
"rushing out into the unknown unprepared", but I guess it's all based on
perspective.

Keith:  A. The advice I received and passed on seeks to change this
paradigm. If you want to run your boat until it fails, then figure out if
you
have the right part, tools, knowledge, etc. Go right on ahead. Not my
preference. These failures never occur while sitting at the dock or in a
nice
safe anchorage. They happen when you least expect them and can ill-afford
them.

I'm not being combative here, I just really shook my head at some of
these philosophies.

Scott:  I too am not being combative, but feel you read a lot into my
statements that wasn't said.  My point was, and I'll repeat it only once
more: The mere fact you have spares is poor reason to install them.  There
are instances where it makes sense.  However, for someone who's been working
on machines most of his or her life, is comfortable pulling an impeller or
changing a water pump and doesn't need to see it again, the spare is best
left:  Confirmed as the correct part (how this whole discussion started),
Packaged for travel and cataloged so it can be rapidly retrieved, backed up
by the tools and knowledge necessary for installation.

IMHO, Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA