Passagemaker attributes - pilothouse location
Not sure that this was brought up in the PPM discussion.
Had an interesting discussion with a KK48 owner this morning. He was
coveting the location of our PH (the helm chair is close to the center of pitch) and
owners stateroom ('way aft). He was bemoaning his PH and owner's stateroom
(both forward) and wishing he had a layout like ours or the Nordhavn 62 on the
same dock. He allowed that after years of uncomfortable passage-making they
now wait for weather - sometimes a long time. Of course everything is a
compromise and I shared that having the master stateroom above the propeller and
adhacent to the engine room was not perfect either, although neither Penny nor
I have trouble sleeping there underway. I confess I hadn't thought of this
before, even though it should have been obvious.
Any thoughts/experience with forward pilothouses and quarters?
Regards,
John
"Seahorse"
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John, where the Seahorses pilot house is located is perfect has been
tested with a few over the whole boat and never an adrenalin moment. I
also like the aft stateroom location and on our Duck I copied the
floor plan on the Seahorse/10&2 because bow location is like riding a
bucking bronco in a hurricane! God Bless - Ross
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Truelove39@aol.com wrote:
Not sure that this was brought up in the PPM discussion.
Had an interesting discussion with a KK48 owner this morning. He was
coveting the location of our PH (the helm chair is close to the center of pitch) and
owners stateroom ('way aft). He was bemoaning his PH and owner's stateroom
(both forward) and wishing he had a layout like ours or the Nordhavn 62 on the
same dock. He allowed that after years of uncomfortable passage-making they
now wait for weather - sometimes a long time. Of course everything is a
compromise and I shared that having the master stateroom above the propeller and
adhacent to the engine room was not perfect either, although neither Penny nor
I have trouble sleeping there underway. I confess I hadn't thought of this
before, even though it should have been obvious.
Any thoughts/experience with forward pilothouses and quarters?
Regards,
John
"Seahorse"
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
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I am sure you guys have read all about Windhorse and Steve's explanation
as to why she was designed the way she was. COG is so important and
most builders simply miss it.
Bo
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf
Of Ross Anderson
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:48 PM
To: Truelove39@aol.com
Cc: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PUP] Passagemaker attributes - pilothouse location
John, where the Seahorses pilot house is located is perfect has been
tested with a few over the whole boat and never an adrenalin moment. I
also like the aft stateroom location and on our Duck I copied the
floor plan on the Seahorse/10&2 because bow location is like riding a
bucking bronco in a hurricane! God Bless - Ross
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Truelove39@aol.com wrote:
Not sure that this was brought up in the PPM discussion.
Had an interesting discussion with a KK48 owner this morning. He was
coveting the location of our PH (the helm chair is close to the center
of pitch) and
owners stateroom ('way aft). He was bemoaning his PH and owner's
stateroom
(both forward) and wishing he had a layout like ours or the Nordhavn
62 on the
same dock. He allowed that after years of uncomfortable
passage-making they
now wait for weather - sometimes a long time. Of course everything is
a
compromise and I shared that having the master stateroom above the
propeller and
adhacent to the engine room was not perfect either, although neither
Penny nor
I have trouble sleeping there underway. I confess I hadn't thought of
this
before, even though it should have been obvious.
Any thoughts/experience with forward pilothouses and quarters?
Regards,
John
"Seahorse"
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir
=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%2
6bcd=De
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To unsubscribe send email to
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Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
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I'm not sure anyone would disagree that aft staterooms and "well aft
of center of pitch" pilothouses are more comfortable when going uphill.
But that does have the drawback of reducing interior space in most
cases.
I've got a mid-ship master stateroom which is OK in all but the
biggest head seas, and quiet as a church, but there have been nasty
uphill days when I'd love to have my pilot house further aft. Foreword
guest cabin and guest head are uninhabitable in any kind of head sea.
But that said, than are many more days when its just fine. Like your
KK48 friends, we pick our weather pretty carefully for comfort, and
alter plans when we get surprised while out.
Not sure that would really change with a further-aft pilot house or
berth. Trying to titrate the weather to your comfort level is pretty
hard. You either go under all but extreme conditions (like the
Dashews, and have a boat like Windhorse where everything is optimized
toward sea comfort) or you wait for the best window, even if its a
lengthy wait.
For us, the waits are just fine. Let the rag-baggers go out and puke
blood in the windy weather.
John Marshall
Serendipity - Nordhavn 55
Sequim Bay, WA
On Jan 22, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Truelove39@aol.com wrote:
Not sure that this was brought up in the PPM discussion.
Had an interesting discussion with a KK48 owner this morning. He was
coveting the location of our PH (the helm chair is close to the
center of pitch) and
owners stateroom ('way aft). He was bemoaning his PH and owner's
stateroom
(both forward) and wishing he had a layout like ours or the
Nordhavn 62 on the
same dock. He allowed that after years of uncomfortable passage-
making they
now wait for weather - sometimes a long time. Of course everything
is a
compromise and I shared that having the master stateroom above the
propeller and
adhacent to the engine room was not perfect either, although
neither Penny nor
I have trouble sleeping there underway. I confess I hadn't thought
of this
before, even though it should have been obvious.
Any thoughts/experience with forward pilothouses and quarters?
Regards,
John
"Seahorse"
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx
?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
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UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
I am sure you guys have read all about Windhorse and Steve's explanation
as to why she was designed the way she was. COG is so important and
most builders simply miss it.
Bo
REPLY
Bo it may not be because they missed it, but because marketing was allowed
to dictate design and over ruled the naval architect. Its a known fact
many purchases are effectively dictated by women due to their Veto power.
When comfort dockside over rules comfort at sea, social centers and
entertainment facilities over rule features only considered essential at
sea on long passages.
West coast fish boats often have the wheel house forward. Reason being to
get it out of the way of the revenue generating working area. In an effort
at generating that "salty" work boat look and feel, many pleasure craft
"trawlers" adopted that pilot house forward look.
And of course we all know that trawler is yet another marketing myth.
With the pilot house well forward, you can have a larger salon midships
compared to a same lenght vessel of better sea going design.
There have been and still are a number of passage making vessels with
classic good looks, with a pilot house midships or slightly aft of
midships.
For one new example have a look at a Queenship passagemaker 60.
Its reminiscent of a Choylee LRC but still have some innovations in
appearance.
Arild
I've been told that the best location is not at midships but at the COB (center of buoyancy). As many hulls have wide flat sterns this can be quite a bit further aft. Did I get that right? Or was it center of rotational inertia? Does the N62 win again?
--- On Thu, 1/22/09, 2elnav@netbistro.com 2elnav@netbistro.com wrote:
There have been and still are a number of passage making
vessels with
classic good looks, with a pilot house midships or slightly
aft of
midships.
Mark said: "... Did I get that right? Or was it center of rotational
inertia? Does the N62 win again?..."
I probably shouldn't post anything, because I'm not sure I'm correctly
following the discussion, but as a former Nordhavn 62 owner I can definitely
say that the pilothouse sure seemed to be in the perfect location. It is at
the center pivot point to the boat. We were in wild seas on several
occasions, and you could clearly see where the center of the boat was. The
closer you were to the center, the more stable you felt. On the N62 this
meant the pilot house, or the aft deck behind the pilot house. It also meant
the main salon. Interestingly, the pivot point didn't seem to be at the
middle of the length of the boat, but about 1/3rd of the way from the back
of the boat. My interpretation has always been (and, correct me if I'm
wrong), that this is because the center of the vessel (the center of
gravity) is at the center of the vessel's weight, not its' length, and that
with the engines towards the back of the boat on the N62, the center of
gravity is aft of midship.
The other nice thing about the pilothouse location on the N62 was the huge
bow in front of the pilothouse. Rarely did waves coming over the bow hit the
windshield. In the pilothouse, we were a good 25 feet back from the bow.
This also gives the N62 a HUGE bow which is perfect for tenders.
-Ken Williams
Nordhavn 68, Sans Souci
www.kensblog.com
Yes, COB or more commonly referred to as LCB (Longitudinal centre of
buoyancy).
I cannot over emphasise the importance of the LCG (longitudinal centre of
gravity) this is often overlooked by the builders but from a design point of
view its foremost.