comparisons: speed & GPH
(Disclaimer: this letter written by a catamaran dealer)
Dear Dennis O'Conner,
Sorry -- I'm not sure what specific boat you were impressed by in your following notation:
What is spectacular is 10 NMPG at 8.1 knots... What is not spectacular is the
nearly $800K price tag... You can afford a lot of fuel for an old boat for
the next 50 years at that price...(Volume 47, issue 10)
This is impressive -- but, whereas we cruising yachtsmen have widely varying bank accounts and budgets, we ALL cruise with approximately the same life-span available to us. So, time has a very real value. As such, moving at just 7-to-9 knots is considered by some to be a too-costly endeavor, especially if the primary reason is "saving fuel." (If you could get 100 MPG in a particular model car...but could travel no faster than 25 MPH ... are there any of us who would not opt for a "mere" 20 MPG, but 60-70 MPH speeds?)
With that in mind, here are some cruising speeds (available with displacement-type catamarans) that take you far beyond the usual 7 or 8 knots endured by the typical displacement-monohull cruiser.... and all for less than the "$800K" price tag you referenced. (I do not represent all of these cat models.)
(a) The BearCat 46 offers 16-knot cruising at 13 GPH (top speed 22 knots), and 750 mile range (1,000-mile range option). Complete and "turn-key" equipped, the current introductory price -- 3 cabins and 2-or-3 heads -- is $699K. Twin-hull stability means no need for $25K stabilizer system -- widely spaced engines negate need for $10K bow-thruster. Boat is beachable for painting or repairs. Shallow, 37" draft.
(b) The BearCat 51 offers 15-knot cruising at 13 GPH (top speed up to 24 knots), and up to a 2,000-mile range ("Turn-key" equipped, with 3 ensuite staterooms, the current introductory price is $795K, ex-works). 39" draft.
(c) The Maryland 37 (from Fountaine Pajot, no longer in production) cruises at 15 knots at 9 GPH (top speed 19 knots), 5 years ago vailable new for about $425K. Soon, this leading French manufacturer will be introducing a new 40' model power cat. (Limited details currently available, but projected cruising speed approx. 15 knots, with a top speed of about 20 knots, priced from around $550K.)
(c) The PDQ-34 cat (soon to be in production at Pearson in Rhode Island), does 15 knots at about 4.5 GPH (top speed 20 knots). Price approx. $400K (I don't know the range, but I'm guessing about 450 miles?)
(d) The Coastal-Cat 34 (already in production in New Zealand, and now also -- as of 3 weeks ago -- in separate production in Anacortes, WA) delivers 16-knot cruising at 3.5 GPH, and a top speed of 20 knots. Current introductory price (with 2 double cabins and 2 heads, standing headroom throughout) is $315K, with a 600-mile range.
As you can see, ALL of these displacement-type power cats offer cruising speeds about TWICE that of comparable size, displacement-type monohull cruisers. And the cats' top speeds can be as much as 2.5 times greater than same-size, displacement-type monohulls -- an appealing benefit when seeking to outrun a storm, reach a distant shore before dark, or get an injured-or-sick crew back to port ASAP.
Rod Gibbons
Cruising Cats USA
There is speed and then there is the joy of passage @ 3gph. God Bless
- Ross on 10&2
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 4:26 AM, rodgibbons@mindspring.com wrote:
(Disclaimer: this letter written by a catamaran dealer)
Dear Dennis O'Conner,
Sorry -- I'm not sure what specific boat you were impressed by in your following notation:
What is spectacular is 10 NMPG at 8.1 knots... What is not spectacular is the
nearly $800K price tag... You can afford a lot of fuel for an old boat for
the next 50 years at that price...(Volume 47, issue 10)
This is impressive -- but, whereas we cruising yachtsmen have widely varying bank accounts and budgets, we ALL cruise with approximately the same life-span available to us. So, time has a very real value. As such, moving at just 7-to-9 knots is considered by some to be a too-costly endeavor, especially if the primary reason is "saving fuel." (If you could get 100 MPG in a particular model car...but could travel no faster than 25 MPH ... are there any of us who would not opt for a "mere" 20 MPG, but 60-70 MPH speeds?)
With that in mind, here are some cruising speeds (available with displacement-type catamarans) that take you far beyond the usual 7 or 8 knots endured by the typical displacement-monohull cruiser.... and all for less than the "$800K" price tag you referenced. (I do not represent all of these cat models.)
(a) The BearCat 46 offers 16-knot cruising at 13 GPH (top speed 22 knots), and 750 mile range (1,000-mile range option). Complete and "turn-key" equipped, the current introductory price -- 3 cabins and 2-or-3 heads -- is $699K. Twin-hull stability means no need for $25K stabilizer system -- widely spaced engines negate need for $10K bow-thruster. Boat is beachable for painting or repairs. Shallow, 37" draft.
(b) The BearCat 51 offers 15-knot cruising at 13 GPH (top speed up to 24 knots), and up to a 2,000-mile range ("Turn-key" equipped, with 3 ensuite staterooms, the current introductory price is $795K, ex-works). 39" draft.
(c) The Maryland 37 (from Fountaine Pajot, no longer in production) cruises at 15 knots at 9 GPH (top speed 19 knots), 5 years ago vailable new for about $425K. Soon, this leading French manufacturer will be introducing a new 40' model power cat. (Limited details currently available, but projected cruising speed approx. 15 knots, with a top speed of about 20 knots, priced from around $550K.)
(c) The PDQ-34 cat (soon to be in production at Pearson in Rhode Island), does 15 knots at about 4.5 GPH (top speed 20 knots). Price approx. $400K (I don't know the range, but I'm guessing about 450 miles?)
(d) The Coastal-Cat 34 (already in production in New Zealand, and now also -- as of 3 weeks ago -- in separate production in Anacortes, WA) delivers 16-knot cruising at 3.5 GPH, and a top speed of 20 knots. Current introductory price (with 2 double cabins and 2 heads, standing headroom throughout) is $315K, with a 600-mile range.
As you can see, ALL of these displacement-type power cats offer cruising speeds about TWICE that of comparable size, displacement-type monohull cruisers. And the cats' top speeds can be as much as 2.5 times greater than same-size, displacement-type monohulls -- an appealing benefit when seeking to outrun a storm, reach a distant shore before dark, or get an injured-or-sick crew back to port ASAP.
Rod Gibbons
Cruising Cats USA
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To your point below, you can't compare speed in a car to speed in a
trawler. In a car, you are more or less fixed in place, you are mixing
with other traffic moving at high speeds and very close to you.
It's also not about saving fuel.
In a trawler, you own the ocean, more or less, you can sleep, eat,
watch TV or do anything else you want to while traveling. Unless the
waves are really up, it can be as comfortable as being at home. Maybe
more comfortable. This is your home at sea. As long as you have at
least two people who can competently stand watch, 7 to 8 knots is
plenty fast to go anywhere in comfort.
Plus, slower is quieter, and that's a big deal for me. In my book, a
sailboat under sail is still the reference standard for noise. Closer
I get to that, the happier I am.
Also, at low speeds, you don't have to be peering out the windscreen,
holding onto the wheel, steering the waves, etc. Let the autopilot
drive, and bend an eye toward the radar and chart plotter every few
minutes (could be much longer on open ocean) and enjoy your book or
the scenery or whatever.
Even in Inside Passage cruising in the PNW, we can put 12 to 14 hours
on the boat and arrive as fresh as we left. Often, the cruising day
seems to be over too soon. Daily runs of 50 to 70 miles are plenty.
Completely the opposite of driving a car, where the longer distance
you go, the more fatigued you get -- so speed is of the essence, with
all the tradeoffs that come with that.
With a boat, the lower the speed, the less fatigue for a given
distance traveled. Or so I see it.
(Of course, this is all predicated on being retired and being able to
set your own schedules. I'm not sure any trawler makes much lot of
sense to own if you only have your weekends free.)
John Marshall
Serendipity - Nordhavn 55
Sequim Bay, WA
This is impressive -- but, whereas we cruising yachtsmen have
widely varying bank accounts and budgets, we ALL cruise with
approximately the same life-span available to us. So, time has a
very real value. As such, moving at just 7-to-9 knots is considered
by some to be a too-costly endeavor, especially if the primary
reason is "saving fuel." (If you could get 100 MPG in a particular
model car...but could travel no faster than 25 MPH ... are there
any of us who would not opt for a "mere" 20 MPG, but 60-70 MPH
speeds?)
John Marshall and I share some common requirements while cruising; quiet,
comfort, and let the autopilot do the steering. I like his 'trawler under
way' noise analogy to a sailboat underway. Some here are not familiar with
that, but it's quiet power pushing your boat/home toward a destination.
The comfort comes from the seaworthiness of the boat, and a robust and
dependable autopilot, to me, is a necessity.
When he says 7 - 8 knots is plenty fast to go anywhere in comfort, we part.
Can 10 knots be quiet and comfortable? Can 15? Remember, this is 'not about
conserving fuel'.
Anyone remember a glorious day when the gulf stream was behind you, the wind
was from the south and you were headed to New England from Florida and your
normally 7 knot trawler logged a whopping 200+ mile 24 hour run? Was it a
delight to make all those miles in a single day? There's no reason this
performance cannot be the norm. Comfortably, safely, quietly.
When John mentions 50 - 70 mile daily runs as being sufficient, we part
again. This list is about passagemaking under power. A day's run at 7 will
make 168 miles offshore. A day's run at 10 nets 240. In 3 days there's a 210
mile difference in miles traveled. From east coast US, for instance, enroute
to Bermuda, the slower speed adds 30 hours to the "passage". You could have
beaten the next front by a day or got caught out in it. On a transatlantic
passage you could easily eliminate 5 to 6 full days from your transit.
Speed lengthens your weather window.
As for fatigue; 10 knots is a conservative speed for a cruising multihull and
near top cruising speed for a performance cruising monohull such as Steve and
Linda Dashew's latest marvel. In either case, the reports of fatigue at speed
are inconsequential on a properly oufitted cruising boat.
regards,
Bill
wcz4399@yahoo.com
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, John Marshall johnamar1101@gmail.com wrote:
From: John Marshall johnamar1101@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PUP] comparisons: speed & GPH
To: "Passagemaking Under Power List"
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:30 PM
To your point below, you can't compare speed in a car to speed in a
trawler. In a car, you are more or less fixed in place, you are mixing
with other traffic moving at high speeds and very close to you.
It's also not about saving fuel.
In a trawler, you own the ocean, more or less, you can sleep, eat,
watch TV or do anything else you want to while traveling. Unless the
waves are really up, it can be as comfortable as being at home. Maybe
more comfortable. This is your home at sea. As long as you have at
least two people who can competently stand watch, 7 to 8 knots is
plenty fast to go anywhere in comfort.
Plus, slower is quieter, and that's a big deal for me. In my book, a
sailboat under sail is still the reference standard for noise. Closer
I get to that, the happier I am.
Also, at low speeds, you don't have to be peering out the windscreen,
holding onto the wheel, steering the waves, etc. Let the autopilot
drive, and bend an eye toward the radar and chart plotter every few
minutes (could be much longer on open ocean) and enjoy your book or
the scenery or whatever.
Even in Inside Passage cruising in the PNW, we can put 12 to 14 hours
on the boat and arrive as fresh as we left. Often, the cruising day
seems to be over too soon. Daily runs of 50 to 70 miles are plenty.
Completely the opposite of driving a car, where the longer distance
you go, the more fatigued you get -- so speed is of the essence, with
all the tradeoffs that come with that.
With a boat, the lower the speed, the less fatigue for a given
distance traveled. Or so I see it.
(Of course, this is all predicated on being retired and being able to
set your own schedules. I'm not sure any trawler makes much lot of
sense to own if you only have your weekends free.)
John Marshall
Serendipity - Nordhavn 55
Sequim Bay, WA
This is impressive -- but, whereas we cruising yachtsmen have
widely varying bank accounts and budgets, we ALL cruise with
approximately the same life-span available to us. So, time has a
very real value. As such, moving at just 7-to-9 knots is considered
by some to be a too-costly endeavor, especially if the primary
reason is "saving fuel." (If you could get 100 MPG in a
particular
model car...but could travel no faster than 25 MPH ... are there
any of us who would not opt for a "mere" 20 MPG, but 60-70
MPH
speeds?)
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To unsubscribe send email to
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UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
(a) The BearCat 46 offers 16-knot cruising at 13 GPH (top speed 22 knots), and 750 mile range (1,000-mile range option). Complete and "turn-key" equipped, the current introductory price -- 3 cabins and 2-or-3 heads -- is $699K.
While I am skeptical of marketing claims like these, they are compelling enough - even at 50% of their claim - to warrant investigation if I was in the market for a new boat. When I looked at Ken William's list of how he weighted factors for boat design (Safety - 20%, Speed 5%, Efficiency 10%, etc), I was reminded of a subset of sailboat designers like the Dashews - "fast is safe." The ability to outrun weather, the ability to make daylight passages, the ability to reliably make port along stretches like the Pacific Coast where there are 80-100 mile stretches between safe harbors. There's a reason why all sail speed records are now held by multi-hulls. And let's not forget that our very own Georgs' NYC-SF record from many years ago was only recently bested (both in catamarans).
I'm not supporting the idea of a power cat - I don't know enough about them and I'm sure there are tradeoffs. But it can't be dismissed either. We, as power boaters, may be 20 years behind sailors in the adoption of catamarans, and we could learn a lot from them on the relative marketing claims compared to performance (if I recall correctly, the initial speed claims were over-stated). Best I can figure, size matters a lot - I wouldn't be surprised if a 37-foot power cat just isn't practical for long, open ocean conditions (the bridge deck gets slammed).
If the perfect passagemaker is the goal, why not start with a clean sheet of paper? The Dashews did and came up with an incredible example (long, narrow, twin screws, and probably pretty expensive, but it doesn't have to be) that deserves respect and consideration. A multi-hull might also be an answer, even at reduced performance relative to marketing claims. In both cases - Multihull and long/fast, the boat's accomodation economics (living space versus slip rent) are skewed toward passagemaking versus sitting in a slip.
Peter
Willard 36
San Francisco