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TWL: New boat advice (An unusual propulsion system)

R
RCSmith@garrett-smith.com
Wed, Mar 13, 2002 1:51 PM

Bob,

Do not change much right away. I repeat: Do not change much right away.

Use the boat, enjoy it for a few months. Then see what your needs are. This
will save you a bundle of $$$. I guarantee it!

Time and again I have reevaluated some feature of my boat as I eventually
came to realize that it was okay as it is. So, be lazy, it pays off.  Your
time will soon be occupied by fixing things that break.

Bob


R C Smith Jr
M/V Susan Marie
Hatteras 58 LRC
Marsh Harbour, Abaco, Bahamas

Bob, Do not change much right away. I repeat: Do not change much right away. Use the boat, enjoy it for a few months. Then see what your needs are. This will save you a bundle of $$$. I guarantee it! Time and again I have reevaluated some feature of my boat as I eventually came to realize that it was okay as it is. So, be lazy, it pays off. Your time will soon be occupied by fixing things that break. Bob ________________ R C Smith Jr M/V Susan Marie Hatteras 58 LRC Marsh Harbour, Abaco, Bahamas
V
vbhodges@ardmore.com
Wed, Mar 13, 2002 2:34 PM

Bob Smith wrote:

Do not change much right away. I repeat: Do not change much right away.
Use the boat, enjoy it for a few months. Then see what your needs are.

This

will save you a bundle of $$$. I guarantee it! (endsnip)

I second that! The last 3 boats I've owned were ones that I used for a year
knowing I wanted to change a lot of things. You don't have to use it that
long, but I would sure try to use it a while & see what you like & don't
like before you spend the kind of $ you are talking about. Our current
trawler has a dining booth that seats 6 that I was SURE when I bought the
boat that I would rip out to use that space for office / storage. Now after
using the boat since last May we LOVE the booth! Sure glad we didn't go to
ripping right away. I also totaly agree with the other thoughts on the
inverter & maybe a small genset for running at night. We put in a 2500w
Heart inverter & we have to remember to exercise the genset once in a while
now. I also srongly recommend the Link 2000 to keep an eye on the batteries.

Brent Hodges
M/V Friendship
43 Albin Sundeck
Seabrook, Tx


[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Duracom.NET]

> Bob Smith wrote: > > Do not change much right away. I repeat: Do not change much right away. > Use the boat, enjoy it for a few months. Then see what your needs are. This > will save you a bundle of $$$. I guarantee it! (endsnip) I second that! The last 3 boats I've owned were ones that I used for a year knowing I wanted to change a lot of things. You don't have to use it that long, but I would sure try to use it a while & see what you like & don't like before you spend the kind of $ you are talking about. Our current trawler has a dining booth that seats 6 that I was SURE when I bought the boat that I would rip out to use that space for office / storage. Now after using the boat since last May we LOVE the booth! Sure glad we didn't go to ripping right away. I also totaly agree with the other thoughts on the inverter & maybe a small genset for running at night. We put in a 2500w Heart inverter & we have to remember to exercise the genset once in a while now. I also srongly recommend the Link 2000 to keep an eye on the batteries. Brent Hodges M/V Friendship 43 Albin Sundeck Seabrook, Tx --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Duracom.NET]
B
bob@tamara-b.org
Wed, Mar 13, 2002 4:03 PM

On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 08:51, R C Smith Jr wrote:

Bob,

Do not change much right away. I repeat: Do not change much right away.

Use the boat, enjoy it for a few months. Then see what your needs are. This
will save you a bundle of $$$. I guarantee it!

Time and again I have reevaluated some feature of my boat as I eventually
came to realize that it was okay as it is. So, be lazy, it pays off.  Your
time will soon be occupied by fixing things that break.

We have a list of defects from the survey, all but one "cosmetic". but
she needs to be worked on at a yard. So my thought was to do the major
"yard" work we want done up-front, like heat and air conditioning which
will mandate more A/C power. I have read a lot about "defered
maintenence"... we want to pre-pay some maintenence, so we can enjoy our
first experiences aboard a little more. We will be cruising from Maine
through the Bahamas extensivly, and the Admiral requires AIR. :-)

Bob

--


Kelly and Bob, soon to be living and cruising aboard the
m/v Tamara B. Cape Elizebeth Me. http://www.tamara-b.org
kelly@tamara-b.org bob@tamara-b.org
411 Walnut Street #1885 Green Cove Springs, FL. 32043

On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 08:51, R C Smith Jr wrote: > Bob, > > Do not change much right away. I repeat: Do not change much right away. > > Use the boat, enjoy it for a few months. Then see what your needs are. This > will save you a bundle of $$$. I guarantee it! > > Time and again I have reevaluated some feature of my boat as I eventually > came to realize that it was okay as it is. So, be lazy, it pays off. Your > time will soon be occupied by fixing things that break. We have a list of defects from the survey, all but one "cosmetic". but she needs to be worked on at a yard. So my thought was to do the major "yard" work we want done up-front, like heat and air conditioning which will mandate more A/C power. I have read a lot about "defered maintenence"... we want to pre-pay some maintenence, so we can enjoy our first experiences aboard a little more. We will be cruising from Maine through the Bahamas extensivly, and the Admiral requires AIR. :-) Bob -- --------------------------------------------------------- Kelly and Bob, soon to be living and cruising aboard the m/v Tamara B. Cape Elizebeth Me. http://www.tamara-b.org kelly@tamara-b.org bob@tamara-b.org 411 Walnut Street #1885 Green Cove Springs, FL. 32043 ---------------------------------------------------------
B
bob@tamara-b.org
Wed, Mar 13, 2002 4:18 PM

On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 09:34, Brent Hodges wrote:

Bob Smith wrote:

Do not change much right away. I repeat: Do not change much right away.
Use the boat, enjoy it for a few months. Then see what your needs are.

This

will save you a bundle of $$$. I guarantee it! (endsnip)

I second that! The last 3 boats I've owned were ones that I used for a year
knowing I wanted to change a lot of things. You don't have to use it that
long, but I would sure try to use it a while & see what you like & don't
like before you spend the kind of $ you are talking about. Our current
trawler has a dining booth that seats 6 that I was SURE when I bought the
boat that I would rip out to use that space for office / storage. Now after
using the boat since last May we LOVE the booth! Sure glad we didn't go to
ripping right away. I also totaly agree with the other thoughts on the
inverter & maybe a small genset for running at night. We put in a 2500w
Heart inverter & we have to remember to exercise the genset once in a while
now. I also srongly recommend the Link 2000 to keep an eye on the batteries.

The interior layout is perfect and we have no plans to modify her in
this way. What is required is a rather massive installation of saellite
internet access equipment (gyro stabalized), sat-phones, air
conditioning, a computer network, heat, and the required electrical
generation capacity to run all this stuff. You see, we are NOT
retireing, we are going to operate our business from her, and cruise
while we do so. This will require reliable IP access to our servers,
phone access to our customers and designers etc.... Our work-day will be
a mix of work and cruising. To accomplish this, we need some heavy-duty
yard work done up-front. The intent is to operate our business from any
point on the planet we happen to be, as if we were sitting in our
home/office.

Bob

--


Kelly and Bob, soon to be living and cruising aboard the
m/v Tamara B. Cape Elizebeth Me. http://www.tamara-b.org
kelly@tamara-b.org bob@tamara-b.org
411 Walnut Street #1885 Green Cove Springs, FL. 32043

On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 09:34, Brent Hodges wrote: > > > > Bob Smith wrote: > > > > Do not change much right away. I repeat: Do not change much right away. > > Use the boat, enjoy it for a few months. Then see what your needs are. > This > > will save you a bundle of $$$. I guarantee it! (endsnip) > > I second that! The last 3 boats I've owned were ones that I used for a year > knowing I wanted to change a lot of things. You don't have to use it that > long, but I would sure try to use it a while & see what you like & don't > like before you spend the kind of $ you are talking about. Our current > trawler has a dining booth that seats 6 that I was SURE when I bought the > boat that I would rip out to use that space for office / storage. Now after > using the boat since last May we LOVE the booth! Sure glad we didn't go to > ripping right away. I also totaly agree with the other thoughts on the > inverter & maybe a small genset for running at night. We put in a 2500w > Heart inverter & we have to remember to exercise the genset once in a while > now. I also srongly recommend the Link 2000 to keep an eye on the batteries. The interior layout is perfect and we have no plans to modify her in this way. What is required is a rather massive installation of saellite internet access equipment (gyro stabalized), sat-phones, air conditioning, a computer network, heat, and the required electrical generation capacity to run all this stuff. You see, we are NOT retireing, we are going to operate our business from her, and cruise while we do so. This will require reliable IP access to our servers, phone access to our customers and designers etc.... Our work-day will be a mix of work and cruising. To accomplish this, we need some heavy-duty yard work done up-front. The intent is to operate our business from any point on the planet we happen to be, as if we were sitting in our home/office. Bob -- --------------------------------------------------------- Kelly and Bob, soon to be living and cruising aboard the m/v Tamara B. Cape Elizebeth Me. http://www.tamara-b.org kelly@tamara-b.org bob@tamara-b.org 411 Walnut Street #1885 Green Cove Springs, FL. 32043 ---------------------------------------------------------
R
RCSmith@garrett-smith.com
Wed, Mar 13, 2002 4:39 PM

Bob,

Many of us would like to hear of your experience in installing this new
internet service. You will be a pioneer. Please keep us informed.

Bob


R C Smith Jr
M/V Susan Marie
Hatteras 58 LRC
Marsh Harbour, Abaco, Bahamas

From: Bob Richards bob@tamara-b.org
Date: 13 Mar 2002 11:18:11 -0500
To: Trawler World List trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Subject: Re: TWL: Re: New boat advice (An unusual propulsion system)

What is required is a rather massive installation of saellite
internet access equipment (gyro stabalized)

Bob, Many of us would like to hear of your experience in installing this new internet service. You will be a pioneer. Please keep us informed. Bob ________________ R C Smith Jr M/V Susan Marie Hatteras 58 LRC Marsh Harbour, Abaco, Bahamas > From: Bob Richards <bob@tamara-b.org> > Date: 13 Mar 2002 11:18:11 -0500 > To: Trawler World List <trawler-world-list@samurai.com> > Subject: Re: TWL: Re: New boat advice (An unusual propulsion system) > > What is required is a rather massive installation of saellite > internet access equipment (gyro stabalized)
E
elnav@uniserve.com
Wed, Mar 13, 2002 5:59 PM

At 06:34 AM 13/03/2002, Brent Hodges & Bob Smith wrote:

Do not change much right away. This will save you a bundle of $$$.

REPLY
When you find a boat  which contains a working but unusual design or
equipment  configuration chances are good that the previous owner gave a
lot of thought to why they wanted something different than the run of the
mill designs.

So if it is working, leave it alone until you can assess how effective it is.
you may be pleasantly surprised to discover the previous owner really did
know what he/she was doing and you are now reaping the benefit of their
learning experience.

It is always cheaper to use other peoples experience instead of paying for
mistakes acquired first hand.

Cheers

Arild.

At 06:34 AM 13/03/2002, Brent Hodges & Bob Smith wrote: > > > > Do not change much right away. This will save you a bundle of $$$. REPLY When you find a boat which contains a working but unusual design or equipment configuration chances are good that the previous owner gave a lot of thought to why they wanted something different than the run of the mill designs. So if it is working, leave it alone until you can assess how effective it is. you may be pleasantly surprised to discover the previous owner really did know what he/she was doing and you are now reaping the benefit of their learning experience. It is always cheaper to use other peoples experience instead of paying for mistakes acquired first hand. Cheers Arild.
B
bob@tamara-b.org
Wed, Mar 13, 2002 7:27 PM

On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 11:39, R C Smith Jr wrote:

Bob,

Many of us would like to hear of your experience in installing this new
internet service. You will be a pioneer. Please keep us informed.

Kelly and I run an ISP. We require reliable 24/7 internet access in
order to be able to work/cruise, as we have no intention to "retire".

In order to make this work we have to be able to field phone calls, and
be able to have access to a variety of servers to implement new designs,
repair work, monitoring, etc... We need this access whether we are at
home-port, or anchored off Grand Turks.

Data speed is NOT critical, as all of our work is on unix servers and
all at the command-line. Reliable voice/fax service is critical as well.
A server down, or a security situation may arise at 4am while doc'd at
Bimini for instance; we need to be able to get to the server, make
calls, get fax-back tech-support, arrange for physical access, etc. ALL
the time, from all locations.

So here is the plan to accomplish the above. The Inmarsat system can be
had for about $6000.00, and I plan do the install myself. The Iridium
system is about $3000.00, and I may install it as well. These are
equipment costs and do not include installation or usage fees. However,
I am getting impatient to be on the water, and so I may have these
installs done at the yard while other work is in progress.

Usage fees on the Inmarsat is metered by the kilobyte of data
transfered, usage on the Iridium and on Sprint is metered by connection
time.

Since we will be using these systems for business, it will be a business
expense.

Here is the plan for the variety of situations we will find ourselves
in...

AT THE DOC:

  1. Telco connection possibly with dsl (modem at 32000bps)
  2. Sprint PCS voice/data backup (9600bps data)
  3. Irridium SAT-Cell secondary Backup (2400bps data)

COASTAL/INLAND:

  1. Sprint PCS primary
  2. Irridium SAT-Cell Backup
  3. INMARSAT FLEET F77 secondary backup (64kbps isdn)

AT SEA:

  1. INMARSAT FLEET F77 64kbps ISDN
  2. Irridium SAT-Cell Backup
  3. SSB Marine operator for secondary voice backup

INMARSAT FLEET F77
http://217.204.152.210/news_story.cfm?id=167

Technical Specifications:

Inmarsat Fleet F77 is the first member of the Inmarsat Fleet family of
services, supporting the Inmarsat Mobile Packet Data Service, Mobile
ISDN Service, voice and fax services.

The Inmarsat Fleet F77 service provides enhanced strategic flexibility
to meet the varied communications and data requirements of the maritime
industry. The requirements for data and e-mail services in the marine
industry have risen steadily in recent years, and the Fleet F77 service
is designed to meet these requirements on a global basis, whilst
providing voice distress and safety services to meet the latest
requirements of the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS).

A single, integrated terminal platform provides users at sea with both
Mobile Packet Data Services (MPDS) and mobile ISDN data, together with
voice and fax services. The latest requirements of the GMDSS entail
pre-emption and prioritisation of voice calls over lower priority voice
and data traffic.

Inmarsat Fleet F77

  • Ship to Shore to Ship voice and data communications
  • Remote Network Access

I.P.-based solutions on board ship, such as:
E-mail and data communications
Ship Management Applications
On-line chart updates
On-line weather information
Vessel telemetry

Features and Benefits:

A powerful communications solution providing the flexibility to meet
communications and data requirements for shipping

Two distinct data channels provided, which can be selected according to
specific situational requirements

Provides full global maritime coverage, to meet demands of commercial
shipping.

Service Characteristics:

Inmarsat Mobile Packet Data Service, for immediate short-burst data

Global voice and fax services

Mobile ISDN, for larger bandwidth and file-size requirements

Designed to meet latest requirements of GMDSS voice distress and safety
requirements, relating to distress handling and pre-emption

Terminal/Service characteristics:

Terminal weight:
The weight of the BDE (Below Deck Unit) is typically 4-5 kg. This
includes the power supply unit and the main communications unit.
Peripheral equipment such as handsets, distribution unit, distress box,
fax machines, PCs etc comes in addition to what is referred to as BDE.

Terminal size:
The BDE measurements are approximately 380x380x70 mm

Antenna radome:
The weight of the antenna unit (a semi-spherical 1.2 meter diameter
dome) is typically 40 kg. This includes the radome, the stabilised
antenna dish with tracking electronics and RF (Radio Frequency)
equipment.

SIM card:
The SIM card identifies the user using the terminal. The card contains
the numbers that are used to contact this user and defines the
preferences, such as the network service provider, stored number list
etc. A PIN number, preventing unauthorised use, protects  use of the SIM
card.

Telephone handsets:
The BDE permits a number of handsets to be connected, either 2 wire
analogue or ISDN. Handsets may be placed up to 100 meters away from the
BDU.

Power consumption:
The BDE input power is 110V or 220V  10% (90 VAC to 276 VAC)
Power consumption is typically 200 W in idle mode, 300 W in transmit mo
the BDE alone and excludes peripherals such as fax machines and PCs.

Operating conditions:
The ambient operating temperature for the BDE is 0-45 C. To secure
adequate cooling there should be a minimum 10 cm unobstructed clearance
all the way around the BDE.

Connectors:

  • 2 wire analogue telephone ports (RJ45)
  • ISDN (RJ45)
  • RS422 serial port
  • USB serial port
  • RS232 serial data port (accessed via an enhanced AT command set)

Configuration:
The operational characteristics and port settings of the MES can be
configured using a PC connected to the RS-232 or USB ports. The
information on how to do this is provided in the user manual from each
manufacturer. (Accessed via an enhanced AT command set).

User interface:
The user interface may either be through the liquid crystal display on
the ISDN handset together with the keys on the handset or through menu
screens on the PC.

Coverage:
Global beam coverage with future I4 compatability.

GMDSS:
The terminal supports the latest IMO requirements related to GMDSS
(Global Maritime Distress and Safety Services). This relates to distress
handling and pre-emption.

IRIDIUM:

The Iridium system can be seen here:
http://www.iridium.com/product/iri_product-detail.asp?productid=443

Add to the above an on-board unix application server and 2 work-stations
and we will be as at-home and productive aboard as we are here. See my
first intro post for more details of how we work currently.

In time, we will become expert at this sort of usage, and we plan to
offer a "mobile" internet service as a future service offering; so
perhaps this is a prelude to something which we can sell in the future.

Bob

--


Kelly and Bob, soon to be living and cruising aboard the
m/v Tamara B. Cape Elizebeth Me. http://www.tamara-b.org
kelly@tamara-b.org bob@tamara-b.org
411 Walnut Street #1885 Green Cove Springs, FL. 32043

On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 11:39, R C Smith Jr wrote: > Bob, > > Many of us would like to hear of your experience in installing this new > internet service. You will be a pioneer. Please keep us informed. > > Kelly and I run an ISP. We require reliable 24/7 internet access in order to be able to work/cruise, as we have no intention to "retire". In order to make this work we have to be able to field phone calls, and be able to have access to a variety of servers to implement new designs, repair work, monitoring, etc... We need this access whether we are at home-port, or anchored off Grand Turks. Data speed is NOT critical, as all of our work is on unix servers and all at the command-line. Reliable voice/fax service is critical as well. A server down, or a security situation may arise at 4am while doc'd at Bimini for instance; we need to be able to get to the server, make calls, get fax-back tech-support, arrange for physical access, etc. ALL the time, from all locations. So here is the plan to accomplish the above. The Inmarsat system can be had for about $6000.00, and I plan do the install myself. The Iridium system is about $3000.00, and I may install it as well. These are equipment costs and do not include installation or usage fees. However, I am getting impatient to be on the water, and so I may have these installs done at the yard while other work is in progress. Usage fees on the Inmarsat is metered by the kilobyte of data transfered, usage on the Iridium and on Sprint is metered by connection time. Since we will be using these systems for business, it will be a business expense. Here is the plan for the variety of situations we will find ourselves in... AT THE DOC: 1) Telco connection possibly with dsl (modem at 32000bps) 2) Sprint PCS voice/data backup (9600bps data) 3) Irridium SAT-Cell secondary Backup (2400bps data) COASTAL/INLAND: 1) Sprint PCS primary 2) Irridium SAT-Cell Backup 3) INMARSAT FLEET F77 secondary backup (64kbps isdn) AT SEA: 1) INMARSAT FLEET F77 64kbps ISDN 2) Irridium SAT-Cell Backup 3) SSB Marine operator for secondary voice backup INMARSAT FLEET F77 http://217.204.152.210/news_story.cfm?id=167 Technical Specifications: Inmarsat Fleet F77 is the first member of the Inmarsat Fleet family of services, supporting the Inmarsat Mobile Packet Data Service, Mobile ISDN Service, voice and fax services. The Inmarsat Fleet F77 service provides enhanced strategic flexibility to meet the varied communications and data requirements of the maritime industry. The requirements for data and e-mail services in the marine industry have risen steadily in recent years, and the Fleet F77 service is designed to meet these requirements on a global basis, whilst providing voice distress and safety services to meet the latest requirements of the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS). A single, integrated terminal platform provides users at sea with both Mobile Packet Data Services (MPDS) and mobile ISDN data, together with voice and fax services. The latest requirements of the GMDSS entail pre-emption and prioritisation of voice calls over lower priority voice and data traffic. Inmarsat Fleet F77 + Ship to Shore to Ship voice and data communications + Remote Network Access I.P.-based solutions on board ship, such as: E-mail and data communications Ship Management Applications On-line chart updates On-line weather information Vessel telemetry Features and Benefits: A powerful communications solution providing the flexibility to meet communications and data requirements for shipping Two distinct data channels provided, which can be selected according to specific situational requirements Provides full global maritime coverage, to meet demands of commercial shipping. Service Characteristics: Inmarsat Mobile Packet Data Service, for immediate short-burst data Global voice and fax services Mobile ISDN, for larger bandwidth and file-size requirements Designed to meet latest requirements of GMDSS voice distress and safety requirements, relating to distress handling and pre-emption Terminal/Service characteristics: Terminal weight: The weight of the BDE (Below Deck Unit) is typically 4-5 kg. This includes the power supply unit and the main communications unit. Peripheral equipment such as handsets, distribution unit, distress box, fax machines, PCs etc comes in addition to what is referred to as BDE. Terminal size: The BDE measurements are approximately 380x380x70 mm Antenna radome: The weight of the antenna unit (a semi-spherical 1.2 meter diameter dome) is typically 40 kg. This includes the radome, the stabilised antenna dish with tracking electronics and RF (Radio Frequency) equipment. SIM card: The SIM card identifies the user using the terminal. The card contains the numbers that are used to contact this user and defines the preferences, such as the network service provider, stored number list etc. A PIN number, preventing unauthorised use, protects use of the SIM card. Telephone handsets: The BDE permits a number of handsets to be connected, either 2 wire analogue or ISDN. Handsets may be placed up to 100 meters away from the BDU. Power consumption: The BDE input power is 110V or 220V 10% (90 VAC to 276 VAC) Power consumption is typically 200 W in idle mode, 300 W in transmit mo the BDE alone and excludes peripherals such as fax machines and PCs. Operating conditions: The ambient operating temperature for the BDE is 0-45 C. To secure adequate cooling there should be a minimum 10 cm unobstructed clearance all the way around the BDE. Connectors: * 2 wire analogue telephone ports (RJ45) * ISDN (RJ45) * RS422 serial port * USB serial port * RS232 serial data port (accessed via an enhanced AT command set) Configuration: The operational characteristics and port settings of the MES can be configured using a PC connected to the RS-232 or USB ports. The information on how to do this is provided in the user manual from each manufacturer. (Accessed via an enhanced AT command set). User interface: The user interface may either be through the liquid crystal display on the ISDN handset together with the keys on the handset or through menu screens on the PC. Coverage: Global beam coverage with future I4 compatability. GMDSS: The terminal supports the latest IMO requirements related to GMDSS (Global Maritime Distress and Safety Services). This relates to distress handling and pre-emption. IRIDIUM: The Iridium system can be seen here: http://www.iridium.com/product/iri_product-detail.asp?productid=443 Add to the above an on-board unix application server and 2 work-stations and we will be as at-home and productive aboard as we are here. See my first intro post for more details of how we work currently. In time, we will become expert at this sort of usage, and we plan to offer a "mobile" internet service as a future service offering; so perhaps this is a prelude to something which we can sell in the future. Bob -- --------------------------------------------------------- Kelly and Bob, soon to be living and cruising aboard the m/v Tamara B. Cape Elizebeth Me. http://www.tamara-b.org kelly@tamara-b.org bob@tamara-b.org 411 Walnut Street #1885 Green Cove Springs, FL. 32043 ---------------------------------------------------------