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TWL: RE: Wind resistance

R&
Robby & Dolores
Thu, Dec 12, 2002 5:41 PM

Like everything else, the effect of the wind on a trawler depends on the
boat.  Last October when going south down the west coast in 25 knts of NW
wind and a very large nw swell plus wind driven waves we turned back north
for about 5 miles to go into Coos Bay for weather reasons.  At 1200 RPM,
normally about 6.5 knots in smooth water, we still punched into wind and
waves (taking a lot of green water over the bow) at 4.5 to 5.5 knots.  Later
that year we experienced 35-40 knots during a cruise on SF bay and had no
problems with control.

I attribute this to the draft of the boat (5.5 feet) and large (38 x 26) slow
turning prop with a large rudder.  I would assume that most trawlers listees
own have less draft, possibly more windage and possibly smaller faster
turning props.

Regards  Robby & Dolores [robbyr@pacbell.net]
S/V Rolling Stone (In Scotland)
http://www.selfsteer.com/monitor/covers/MonitorCOV.jpg
M/V DOLORES E. (In San Francisco)
http://home.pacbell.net/robbyr/index.html

Like everything else, the effect of the wind on a trawler depends on the boat. Last October when going south down the west coast in 25 knts of NW wind and a very large nw swell plus wind driven waves we turned back north for about 5 miles to go into Coos Bay for weather reasons. At 1200 RPM, normally about 6.5 knots in smooth water, we still punched into wind and waves (taking a lot of green water over the bow) at 4.5 to 5.5 knots. Later that year we experienced 35-40 knots during a cruise on SF bay and had no problems with control. I attribute this to the draft of the boat (5.5 feet) and large (38 x 26) slow turning prop with a large rudder. I would assume that most trawlers listees own have less draft, possibly more windage and possibly smaller faster turning props. Regards Robby & Dolores [robbyr@pacbell.net] S/V Rolling Stone (In Scotland) http://www.selfsteer.com/monitor/covers/MonitorCOV.jpg M/V DOLORES E. (In San Francisco) http://home.pacbell.net/robbyr/index.html
D
David
Thu, Dec 12, 2002 8:05 PM

The thunderstorms and fronts on the Gulf Coast of the US can be very
severe. I spent 5 years down there almost entirely on the water. I worked
offshore and lived on a 41 Sport fisherman. We had winds in excess of 80
knots (not in hurricanes) at least three times that I recall while offshore
on the oil rigs, usually for only a few minutes.  For those curious, the
oil field workers all hide in the crane base during these events, that the
supporting heavy steel under the cranes. I usually watched the wind gauges
in the dog house if it was welded on, if it was bolted on I was in the
crane base too.

We had my old Skooch (41 Hatteras sport fish) anchored one night at St
Joseph bay on the west side of the peninsula from Appalachacola, FL. A
thunderstorm stalled right on us at 2am and it blow so hard you could not
see the surface of the water for 20-30 minutes. We were in 10 feet of water
and the wind was blowing directly to the lee shore, of course. The depth
sounder went bazzerk I guess from all the water borne noise and wouldn't
work. I had out 7:1 scope nylon with a 27 Danfort.  I decided to start the
motors and put them in forward to take some of the strain off the ground
tackle. This didn't seem to do anything, so I throttled them up to 1200 rpm
or about 250 HP (600 total). I got my brother to go forward (life jacket
and line). He crawled back and said he wasn't going up there again and that
the anchor line was like a guitar string, even with the motors helping.
Finally it calmed down and we all fell back asleep. During all this there
were several distress calls from a group of sailboats anchored with us. We
kept in touch via radio but could not help much. In the morning the CG
pulled them all off the sand beach. One was up so far you could walk around
her with out touching the water. We were the only ones that made it thru
with minor damage. Thanks to King Neptune.

I guess if I could do all the math I would find that hurricane force winds
produce truly terrible forces on a vessel. I know that 80 knots is more
than 4 times worst than 40 knots not twice. Few will ever see sustained 80
knots but thunderstorms are everywhere and you might need to know what to
do at 80 knots all of the sudden some summer afternoon. The newest Skooch
has a third the power as that old boat and more windage. I will be very
careful of thunderstorms anchored or underway. Mike said he had a hard time
turning thru the eye of the wind, I'll bet thats very true with many of the
trawlers discussed in this forum, including mine under those conditions.

Plus I picked up from the TWL sailboat guys that you can come around with
the wind and wear the ship to the other side of the wind. I very well may
not have thought of that as I can picture myself being quite stressed if
Skooch would not come into the wind. I will know now, thanks.

Skooch - Hatteras 42 LRC
Worton Creek, MD
David Stahl


           Beacon Technologies Inc.
          Serving The Delaware Valley
   Business and Residential Internet Services
The thunderstorms and fronts on the Gulf Coast of the US can be very severe. I spent 5 years down there almost entirely on the water. I worked offshore and lived on a 41 Sport fisherman. We had winds in excess of 80 knots (not in hurricanes) at least three times that I recall while offshore on the oil rigs, usually for only a few minutes. For those curious, the oil field workers all hide in the crane base during these events, that the supporting heavy steel under the cranes. I usually watched the wind gauges in the dog house if it was welded on, if it was bolted on I was in the crane base too. We had my old Skooch (41 Hatteras sport fish) anchored one night at St Joseph bay on the west side of the peninsula from Appalachacola, FL. A thunderstorm stalled right on us at 2am and it blow so hard you could not see the surface of the water for 20-30 minutes. We were in 10 feet of water and the wind was blowing directly to the lee shore, of course. The depth sounder went bazzerk I guess from all the water borne noise and wouldn't work. I had out 7:1 scope nylon with a 27 Danfort. I decided to start the motors and put them in forward to take some of the strain off the ground tackle. This didn't seem to do anything, so I throttled them up to 1200 rpm or about 250 HP (600 total). I got my brother to go forward (life jacket and line). He crawled back and said he wasn't going up there again and that the anchor line was like a guitar string, even with the motors helping. Finally it calmed down and we all fell back asleep. During all this there were several distress calls from a group of sailboats anchored with us. We kept in touch via radio but could not help much. In the morning the CG pulled them all off the sand beach. One was up so far you could walk around her with out touching the water. We were the only ones that made it thru with minor damage. Thanks to King Neptune. I guess if I could do all the math I would find that hurricane force winds produce truly terrible forces on a vessel. I know that 80 knots is more than 4 times worst than 40 knots not twice. Few will ever see sustained 80 knots but thunderstorms are everywhere and you might need to know what to do at 80 knots all of the sudden some summer afternoon. The newest Skooch has a third the power as that old boat and more windage. I will be very careful of thunderstorms anchored or underway. Mike said he had a hard time turning thru the eye of the wind, I'll bet thats very true with many of the trawlers discussed in this forum, including mine under those conditions. Plus I picked up from the TWL sailboat guys that you can come around with the wind and wear the ship to the other side of the wind. I very well may not have thought of that as I can picture myself being quite stressed if Skooch would not come into the wind. I will know now, thanks. Skooch - Hatteras 42 LRC Worton Creek, MD David Stahl ************************************************************** Beacon Technologies Inc. Serving The Delaware Valley Business and Residential Internet Services
KB
Kim Boyce and Eric Thoman
Sat, Dec 14, 2002 5:28 PM

Several years ago I had a commercial skipper give me the following advice
which I have used more than once:  When faced with a windy unfamiliar marina
and you are overwhelmed with trying to work the radio with the wharfinger,
keeping the peace onboard, and trying to figure out where pier XYZ is put
your boat into the "weathervane position" and take a deep breath.  A heavy
boat will hold stern to the wind long enough for you to get a grip on the
situation.

As to other windy maneuvers in general, in my amateur opinion there is no
substitute for a barn door rudder.  I have watched a big very expensive
yacht moored near me (a brand we all know well and would die for) maneuver
out of his slip over a dozen times.  Even with thrusters he has to do a 6 or
8 point turn to get out of a slip with lots of backing room in a light wind.
I do not think that it is operator error because he has had professional
skippers aboard as well as the owner of the ship yard.  Small rudder.  Size
matters.

Eric Thoman
Abyssinia  www.seanet.com/~kimeric

Several years ago I had a commercial skipper give me the following advice which I have used more than once: When faced with a windy unfamiliar marina and you are overwhelmed with trying to work the radio with the wharfinger, keeping the peace onboard, and trying to figure out where pier XYZ is put your boat into the "weathervane position" and take a deep breath. A heavy boat will hold stern to the wind long enough for you to get a grip on the situation. As to other windy maneuvers in general, in my amateur opinion there is no substitute for a barn door rudder. I have watched a big very expensive yacht moored near me (a brand we all know well and would die for) maneuver out of his slip over a dozen times. Even with thrusters he has to do a 6 or 8 point turn to get out of a slip with lots of backing room in a light wind. I do not think that it is operator error because he has had professional skippers aboard as well as the owner of the ship yard. Small rudder. Size matters. Eric Thoman Abyssinia www.seanet.com/~kimeric