Hi guys I want a stable & reliable frequency standard. I do NOT have a cesium beam. I DO have a lot of gpsdos and some rubidiums. Since I have one PRS-10 and this device has a 1 pps input, you already know what I'm thinking... What I have: Trimble Thunderbolt Trimble UCCM Symmetricom UCCM Samsung UCCM HP 58503A TruePosition Oscilloquartz Star 4+ and a little board with a ublox LEA 5T and 1 pps output. Which device is more suitable for disciplining the PRS-10? My gps antenna setup is: Symmetricom 58532A on the top of the water tank of my building with a very good sky view. A Raven Industries LA-21-1575-100-T. About 50 m of RG6. A Symmetricom antenna distributor (don't remember the code but is the 4 outputs one) By the way... Someone knows the delay of the inline amplifier and the antenna distributor? (for Lady Heather) Mark Sims is out there reading this list? I'm having problems with LH 6.14 and the UCCM units. Any help you can give me will be welcomed. Thanks Luiz Alberto Saba from Santos - São Paulo - Brazil

Hi You have a lot of stuff that runs off of GPS L1. Any “common mode” issues (like ionospheric disturbances) will propagate into all of them. What impact that has on each one is very much a “that depends” sort of thing. The firmware and filtering quickly get into the act …. They all will wander, just not in exactly the same way. The PRS-10 does have an internal “sync” capability. The main purpose for the input is to simply calibrate the device from time to time. It is not really intended to replace a GPSDO. Any of the devices you have are fine for putting the PRS-10 on frequency to calibrate it. All are equally likely to wander around. The PRS-10 will not help much with this wandering. You can look at all of this with something like a TAPR TICC. To look at lots of them at once, a set of TAPR TICC’s would be nice to have ….. Bob > On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:02 AM, Luiz Alberto Saba <las@intercat.com.br> wrote: > > Hi guys > > > I want a stable & reliable frequency standard. > > I do NOT have a cesium beam. > > I DO have a lot of gpsdos and some rubidiums. > > Since I have one PRS-10 and this device has a 1 pps input, you already know what I'm thinking... > > What I have: > > Trimble Thunderbolt > > Trimble UCCM > > Symmetricom UCCM > > Samsung UCCM > > HP 58503A > > TruePosition > > Oscilloquartz Star 4+ > > and a little board with a ublox LEA 5T and 1 pps output. > > Which device is more suitable for disciplining the PRS-10? > > My gps antenna setup is: > > Symmetricom 58532A on the top of the water tank of my building with a very good sky view. > > A Raven Industries LA-21-1575-100-T. About 50 m of RG6. > > A Symmetricom antenna distributor (don't remember the code but is the 4 outputs one) > > By the way... Someone knows the delay of the inline amplifier and the antenna distributor? (for Lady Heather) > > Mark Sims is out there reading this list? I'm having problems with LH 6.14 and the UCCM units. > > Any help you can give me will be welcomed. > > > Thanks > > > Luiz Alberto Saba > > from Santos - São Paulo - Brazil > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

I would be curious to hear from those who have a GPS disciplined PRS 10 in their home time labs. I was never that impressed with the performance of one of mine in that configuration from a 10 MHz ADEV perspective (I did try making a few parameter changes.) I ended up essentially free running mine but would occasionally apply a 1pps signal to mine as means of adjusting its output frequency on an as needed basis. I may try this again with a different PRS10 (the 1pps output on the unit in question failed a few years ago but I have a spare that has been recently put into service.) Perhaps the second unit will work better. Both units were obtained via the usual auction site. Mark Spencer mark@alignedsolutions.com 604 762 4099 > On Sep 29, 2020, at 8:02 AM, Luiz Alberto Saba <las@intercat.com.br> wrote: > > Hi guys > > > I want a stable & reliable frequency standard. > > I do NOT have a cesium beam. > > I DO have a lot of gpsdos and some rubidiums. > > Since I have one PRS-10 and this device has a 1 pps input, you already know what I'm thinking... > > What I have: > > Trimble Thunderbolt > > Trimble UCCM > > Symmetricom UCCM > > Samsung UCCM > > HP 58503A > > TruePosition > > Oscilloquartz Star 4+ > > and a little board with a ublox LEA 5T and 1 pps output. > > Which device is more suitable for disciplining the PRS-10? > > My gps antenna setup is: > > Symmetricom 58532A on the top of the water tank of my building with a very good sky view. > > A Raven Industries LA-21-1575-100-T. About 50 m of RG6. > > A Symmetricom antenna distributor (don't remember the code but is the 4 outputs one) > > By the way... Someone knows the delay of the inline amplifier and the antenna distributor? (for Lady Heather) > > Mark Sims is out there reading this list? I'm having problems with LH 6.14 and the UCCM units. > > Any help you can give me will be welcomed. > > > Thanks > > > Luiz Alberto Saba > > from Santos - São Paulo - Brazil > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

Look at the SRS FS740 and you get an idea how "good" the PRS10 Rb is! Bert Kehren     In a message dated 9/29/2020 2:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:  I would be curious to hear from those who have a GPS disciplined PRS 10 in their home time labs.  I was never that impressed with the performance of one of mine in that configuration from a 10 MHz ADEV perspective (I did try making a few parameter changes.) I ended up essentially free running mine but would occasionally apply a 1pps signal to mine as means of adjusting its output frequency on an as needed basis.  I may try this again with a different PRS10 (the 1pps output on the unit in question failed a few years ago but I have a spare that has been recently put into service.)  Perhaps the second unit will work better.  Both units were obtained via the usual auction site. Mark Spencer mark@alignedsolutions.com 604 762 4099 > On Sep 29, 2020, at 8:02 AM, Luiz Alberto Saba <las@intercat.com.br> wrote: > > Hi guys > > > I want a stable & reliable frequency standard. > > I do NOT have a cesium beam. > > I DO have a lot of gpsdos and some rubidiums. > > Since I have one PRS-10 and this device has a 1 pps input, you already know what I'm thinking... > > What I have: > > Trimble Thunderbolt > > Trimble UCCM > > Symmetricom UCCM > > Samsung UCCM > > HP 58503A > > TruePosition > > Oscilloquartz Star 4+ > > and a little board with a ublox LEA 5T and 1 pps output. > > Which device is more suitable for disciplining the PRS-10? > > My gps antenna setup is: > > Symmetricom 58532A on the top of the water tank of my building with a very good sky view. > > A Raven Industries LA-21-1575-100-T. About 50 m of RG6. > > A Symmetricom antenna distributor (don't remember the code but is the 4 outputs one) > > By the way... Someone knows the delay of the inline amplifier and the antenna distributor? (for Lady Heather) > > Mark Sims is out there reading this list? I'm having problems with LH 6.14 and the UCCM units. > > Any help you can give me will be welcomed. > > > Thanks > > > Luiz Alberto Saba > > from Santos - São Paulo - Brazil > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.

Mark: I don't have a PPS syncable PRS-10 yet, but will probably be getting one within a year or so. My expectations are not great, however, because I already know that the received GPS time has diurnal wiggles to the tune of up to 10's of nsec p-p. And I also know that the PRS-10 (and probably all others in its price class) make seemingly random frequency "adjustments" on a time scale of just a few hours. For a GPS disciplining loop to fix both, it would have to have a loop time constant long compared to a day on the one hand, yet a loop time constant of well under a day on the other. It's kind of tough to have one loop with both properties at once. Dana On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 1:22 PM Mark Spencer <mark@alignedsolutions.com> wrote: > I would be curious to hear from those who have a GPS disciplined PRS 10 in > their home time labs. I was never that impressed with the performance of > one of mine in that configuration from a 10 MHz ADEV perspective (I did try > making a few parameter changes.) I ended up essentially free running mine > but would occasionally apply a 1pps signal to mine as means of adjusting > its output frequency on an as needed basis. > > I may try this again with a different PRS10 (the 1pps output on the unit > in question failed a few years ago but I have a spare that has been > recently put into service.) Perhaps the second unit will work better. > Both units were obtained via the usual auction site. > > Mark Spencer > mark@alignedsolutions.com > 604 762 4099 > > > On Sep 29, 2020, at 8:02 AM, Luiz Alberto Saba <las@intercat.com.br> > wrote: > > > > Hi guys > > > > > > I want a stable & reliable frequency standard. > > > > I do NOT have a cesium beam. > > > > I DO have a lot of gpsdos and some rubidiums. > > > > Since I have one PRS-10 and this device has a 1 pps input, you already > know what I'm thinking... > > > > What I have: > > > > Trimble Thunderbolt > > > > Trimble UCCM > > > > Symmetricom UCCM > > > > Samsung UCCM > > > > HP 58503A > > > > TruePosition > > > > Oscilloquartz Star 4+ > > > > and a little board with a ublox LEA 5T and 1 pps output. > > > > Which device is more suitable for disciplining the PRS-10? > > > > My gps antenna setup is: > > > > Symmetricom 58532A on the top of the water tank of my building with a > very good sky view. > > > > A Raven Industries LA-21-1575-100-T. About 50 m of RG6. > > > > A Symmetricom antenna distributor (don't remember the code but is the 4 > outputs one) > > > > By the way... Someone knows the delay of the inline amplifier and the > antenna distributor? (for Lady Heather) > > > > Mark Sims is out there reading this list? I'm having problems with LH > 6.14 and the UCCM units. > > > > Any help you can give me will be welcomed. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Luiz Alberto Saba > > > > from Santos - São Paulo - Brazil > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi > On Sep 29, 2020, at 10:23 PM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober@gmail.com> wrote: > > Mark: > > I don't have a PPS syncable PRS-10 yet, but will probably be getting one > within a > year or so. My expectations are not great, however, because I already know > that > the received GPS time has diurnal wiggles to the tune of up to 10's of nsec > p-p. > And I also know that the PRS-10 (and probably all others in its price > class) make > seemingly random frequency "adjustments" on a time scale of just a few > hours. > For a GPS disciplining loop to fix both, it would have to have a loop time > constant > long compared to a day on the one hand, yet a loop time constant of well > under a > day on the other. It's kind of tough to have one loop with both properties > at once. > > Dana Rb’s do not have super duper performance at short tau. At least not compared to reasonably good OCXO’s. An OCXO with a 1 second ADEV below 1x10^-12 is not terribly hard to find. Your “typical” Rb ( = not a 5065) is going to be 10X worse than that at 1 second. Indeed the PRS-10 (by design) has some interesting issues in the 1 to 10 second region ( = it is worse than several others out there …). If you are looking for good short term, an OCXO is cheaper to buy and cheaper to run ( = lower power ). What you are after very much dictates what makes sense. There is no “one size fits all” solution. A fancy Rb GPSDO will have some method of stretching the disciplining process out *way* past what anb OCXO based part would do. Some way of looking at day to day (or couple day) readings is needed. It still will not take out all of the daily “wobble” in GPS, but it will attenuate it some. Indeed an L1 / L2 based part ( possibly using a ZED-F9P (or T) ) could take out all the wobble if corrections are applied. That’s not as crazy a thing as it once was. There would be a bit of lag to deal with so it’s not quite a slam dunk. Since Rb’s do not typically have super temperature performance ( = they are not a Cs standard …) some sort of solution also needs to be applied in that area if you will be running a really long loop. Otherwise all you will do is track your HVAC system :) Fun !! Bob > > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 1:22 PM Mark Spencer <mark@alignedsolutions.com> > wrote: > >> I would be curious to hear from those who have a GPS disciplined PRS 10 in >> their home time labs. I was never that impressed with the performance of >> one of mine in that configuration from a 10 MHz ADEV perspective (I did try >> making a few parameter changes.) I ended up essentially free running mine >> but would occasionally apply a 1pps signal to mine as means of adjusting >> its output frequency on an as needed basis. >> >> I may try this again with a different PRS10 (the 1pps output on the unit >> in question failed a few years ago but I have a spare that has been >> recently put into service.) Perhaps the second unit will work better. >> Both units were obtained via the usual auction site. >> >> Mark Spencer >> mark@alignedsolutions.com >> 604 762 4099 >> >>> On Sep 29, 2020, at 8:02 AM, Luiz Alberto Saba <las@intercat.com.br> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi guys >>> >>> >>> I want a stable & reliable frequency standard. >>> >>> I do NOT have a cesium beam. >>> >>> I DO have a lot of gpsdos and some rubidiums. >>> >>> Since I have one PRS-10 and this device has a 1 pps input, you already >> know what I'm thinking... >>> >>> What I have: >>> >>> Trimble Thunderbolt >>> >>> Trimble UCCM >>> >>> Symmetricom UCCM >>> >>> Samsung UCCM >>> >>> HP 58503A >>> >>> TruePosition >>> >>> Oscilloquartz Star 4+ >>> >>> and a little board with a ublox LEA 5T and 1 pps output. >>> >>> Which device is more suitable for disciplining the PRS-10? >>> >>> My gps antenna setup is: >>> >>> Symmetricom 58532A on the top of the water tank of my building with a >> very good sky view. >>> >>> A Raven Industries LA-21-1575-100-T. About 50 m of RG6. >>> >>> A Symmetricom antenna distributor (don't remember the code but is the 4 >> outputs one) >>> >>> By the way... Someone knows the delay of the inline amplifier and the >> antenna distributor? (for Lady Heather) >>> >>> Mark Sims is out there reading this list? I'm having problems with LH >> 6.14 and the UCCM units. >>> >>> Any help you can give me will be welcomed. >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> Luiz Alberto Saba >>> >>> from Santos - São Paulo - Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

Em 29/09/2020 14:08, Bob kb8tq escreveu: > Hi > > You have a lot of stuff that runs off of GPS L1. Any “common mode” issues > (like ionospheric disturbances) will propagate into all of them. What impact that > has on each one is very much a “that depends” sort of thing. The firmware and > filtering quickly get into the act …. They all will wander, just not in exactly the > same way. > > The PRS-10 does have an internal “sync” capability. The main purpose for the > input is to simply calibrate the device from time to time. It is not really intended > to replace a GPSDO. > > Any of the devices you have are fine for putting the PRS-10 on frequency to calibrate > it. All are equally likely to wander around. The PRS-10 will not help much with this wandering. I was just wanderng what is the best thing to do, with the stuff that I already have, in order to have a poor substitute for a cesium... > > You can look at all of this with something like a TAPR TICC. To look at lots of them > at once, a set of TAPR TICC’s would be nice to have ….. I have just one... > > Bob > >> On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:02 AM, Luiz Alberto Saba <las@intercat.com.br> wrote: >> >> Hi guys >> >> >> I want a stable & reliable frequency standard. >> >> I do NOT have a cesium beam. >> >> I DO have a lot of gpsdos and some rubidiums. >> >> Since I have one PRS-10 and this device has a 1 pps input, you already know what I'm thinking... >> >> What I have: >> >> Trimble Thunderbolt >> >> Trimble UCCM >> >> Symmetricom UCCM >> >> Samsung UCCM >> >> HP 58503A >> >> TruePosition >> >> Oscilloquartz Star 4+ >> >> and a little board with a ublox LEA 5T and 1 pps output. >> >> Which device is more suitable for disciplining the PRS-10? >> >> My gps antenna setup is: >> >> Symmetricom 58532A on the top of the water tank of my building with a very good sky view. >> >> A Raven Industries LA-21-1575-100-T. About 50 m of RG6. >> >> A Symmetricom antenna distributor (don't remember the code but is the 4 outputs one) >> >> By the way... Someone knows the delay of the inline amplifier and the antenna distributor? (for Lady Heather) >> >> Mark Sims is out there reading this list? I'm having problems with LH 6.14 and the UCCM units. >> >> Any help you can give me will be welcomed. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Luiz Alberto Saba >> >> from Santos - São Paulo - Brazil >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

Hi > On Sep 30, 2020, at 11:45 AM, Luiz Alberto Saba <las@intercat.com.br> wrote: > > > > Em 29/09/2020 14:08, Bob kb8tq escreveu: >> Hi >> >> You have a lot of stuff that runs off of GPS L1. Any “common mode” issues >> (like ionospheric disturbances) will propagate into all of them. What impact that >> has on each one is very much a “that depends” sort of thing. The firmware and >> filtering quickly get into the act …. They all will wander, just not in exactly the >> same way. >> >> The PRS-10 does have an internal “sync” capability. The main purpose for the >> input is to simply calibrate the device from time to time. It is not really intended >> to replace a GPSDO. >> >> Any of the devices you have are fine for putting the PRS-10 on frequency to calibrate >> it. All are equally likely to wander around. The PRS-10 will not help much with this wandering. > I was just wanderng what is the best thing to do, with the stuff that I already have, in order to have a poor substitute for a cesium... A GPSDO, pretty much by it’s self *is* the best “poor substitute for a cesium”. The biggest improvement over a stock part would be to go to L1 / L2. Past that you get into fancy loops and a *lot* of work. Bob >> >> You can look at all of this with something like a TAPR TICC. To look at lots of them >> at once, a set of TAPR TICC’s would be nice to have ….. > I have just one... >> >> Bob >> >>> On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:02 AM, Luiz Alberto Saba <las@intercat.com.br> wrote: >>> >>> Hi guys >>> >>> >>> I want a stable & reliable frequency standard. >>> >>> I do NOT have a cesium beam. >>> >>> I DO have a lot of gpsdos and some rubidiums. >>> >>> Since I have one PRS-10 and this device has a 1 pps input, you already know what I'm thinking... >>> >>> What I have: >>> >>> Trimble Thunderbolt >>> >>> Trimble UCCM >>> >>> Symmetricom UCCM >>> >>> Samsung UCCM >>> >>> HP 58503A >>> >>> TruePosition >>> >>> Oscilloquartz Star 4+ >>> >>> and a little board with a ublox LEA 5T and 1 pps output. >>> >>> Which device is more suitable for disciplining the PRS-10? >>> >>> My gps antenna setup is: >>> >>> Symmetricom 58532A on the top of the water tank of my building with a very good sky view. >>> >>> A Raven Industries LA-21-1575-100-T. About 50 m of RG6. >>> >>> A Symmetricom antenna distributor (don't remember the code but is the 4 outputs one) >>> >>> By the way... Someone knows the delay of the inline amplifier and the antenna distributor? (for Lady Heather) >>> >>> Mark Sims is out there reading this list? I'm having problems with LH 6.14 and the UCCM units. >>> >>> Any help you can give me will be welcomed. >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> Luiz Alberto Saba >>> >>> from Santos - São Paulo - Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.