Re: [time-nuts] Quad Driven Mixer 5 to 10 MHz Doubler Article
Gentlemen-
I have my paper copy in front of me with the original article.
I am not certain that I can just scan it and send it around due to
ARRL & Author copyright matters. But I am willing to scan it.
With all due respect to John, K6IQL the author who spent much time
on his design......I would opine that an equivalent doubler could be
made from the Wenzel doubler circuits that are on the Wenzel web
page and from first-hand experience...I used such a 5-to-10 MHz doubler
for all of my amateur radio projects up through 403GHz.
The K6IQL design, in brief, splits the 5MHz signal into two paths.
One passes to the LO port of a Double Balanced mixer, while the
second path goes through a 90-deg phase shift network and into the
RF port of that JMS-1MH mixer. The output is taken from the IF
port. The output is then buffered & filtered. He spent much design effort
on the 90-deg phase shift network to keep it all temp stable.
Personally, I'm lazy and like the Wenzel "full wave rectifier" design with
a nice BPF on the output to obtain a clean 10MHz.
-Brian, WA1ZMS/4
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Oz-in-DFW
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:41 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Quad Driven Mixer 5 to 10 MHz Doubler Atricle
Only a small subset of QEX articles on available in digital format. This isn't one of them. We'll either need to get a copy from the author, or from a QEX subscriber.
On 11/12/2014 2:34 PM, Dave M wrote:
I am able to download the files associated with the article, but not
the article itself. Guess I need to be a paying member to get the
article. The only files in the download are the XLS file for
calculating the filter values, and the parts list.
It's at http://www.arrl.org/qexfiles in the year 2011 listings,
filename 3x11_Roos.zip titled "Converting a Vintage 5 MHz Frequency
Standard to 10 MHz with a Low Spurious Frequency Doubler"
Dave M
John C. Roos via time-nuts wrote:
Several list members contacted me expressing interest in the article.
None of them were able to download much or anything from the ARRL QEX
web site. That includes me and other ARRL members.
I am working the issue with one call to ARRL so far today. I will
contact Larry Wolfgang at ARRL and see what Ican bust loose. So hang
in there. It is a cute technique, not originated by me, but useful.
Right now I have to get the ARRL FMT done first.
-73 john c roos k6iql
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--
mailto:oz@ozindfw.net
Oz
POB 93167
Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport)
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I also appreciate the Wenzel circuit. Not seeing the other article, I might
guess that maybe it offers suppression of the original 5 MHz signal as a
benefit.
It seems to be the equivalent of a digital XOR circuit with one lead
delayed by 90 degrees.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wa1zms@att.net wrote:
Gentlemen-
I have my paper copy in front of me with the original article.
I am not certain that I can just scan it and send it around due to
ARRL & Author copyright matters. But I am willing to scan it.
With all due respect to John, K6IQL the author who spent much time
on his design......I would opine that an equivalent doubler could be
made from the Wenzel doubler circuits that are on the Wenzel web
page and from first-hand experience...I used such a 5-to-10 MHz doubler
for all of my amateur radio projects up through 403GHz.
The K6IQL design, in brief, splits the 5MHz signal into two paths.
One passes to the LO port of a Double Balanced mixer, while the
second path goes through a 90-deg phase shift network and into the
RF port of that JMS-1MH mixer. The output is taken from the IF
port. The output is then buffered & filtered. He spent much design effort
on the 90-deg phase shift network to keep it all temp stable.
Personally, I'm lazy and like the Wenzel "full wave rectifier" design with
a nice BPF on the output to obtain a clean 10MHz.
-Brian, WA1ZMS/4
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Oz-in-DFW
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:41 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Quad Driven Mixer 5 to 10 MHz Doubler Atricle
Only a small subset of QEX articles on available in digital format. This
isn't one of them. We'll either need to get a copy from the author, or from
a QEX subscriber.
On 11/12/2014 2:34 PM, Dave M wrote:
I am able to download the files associated with the article, but not
the article itself. Guess I need to be a paying member to get the
article. The only files in the download are the XLS file for
calculating the filter values, and the parts list.
It's at http://www.arrl.org/qexfiles in the year 2011 listings,
filename 3x11_Roos.zip titled "Converting a Vintage 5 MHz Frequency
Standard to 10 MHz with a Low Spurious Frequency Doubler"
Dave M
John C. Roos via time-nuts wrote:
Several list members contacted me expressing interest in the article.
None of them were able to download much or anything from the ARRL QEX
web site. That includes me and other ARRL members.
I am working the issue with one call to ARRL so far today. I will
contact Larry Wolfgang at ARRL and see what Ican bust loose. So hang
in there. It is a cute technique, not originated by me, but useful.
Right now I have to get the ARRL FMT done first.
-73 john c roos k6iql
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
mailto:oz@ozindfw.net
Oz
POB 93167
Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport)
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
Just a few days ago, I ordered parts to build a couple of the Wenzel 2-diode
doublers, described in the same article as your full-wave diode doubler,
just in time to discover them on Ebay (via slow boat from China), item#
171511157159. I inspected the components and layout in the picture in the
listing, and it certainly looks like the Wenzel FWB doubler. At $9.99 USD,
the price is cheap enough, especially since you get SMA connectors on both
ends. Might have to do a bit of solder work on the SMA connectors if you
want to put it into a little box.
The listing on the doubler on Ebay says that the low end is 10MHz, but I'll
bet that it will get down to 5MHz quite easily If there's any trouble
handling a 5MHz input, you could easily use a lower frequency ferrite for
the balun and make it work.
As you suggest, a BPF on the output and maybe a bit of amplification to get
the level up to a usable level should get you a fairly clean 10 MHz.
Dave M
Brian, WA1ZMS wrote:
Gentlemen-
I have my paper copy in front of me with the original article.
I am not certain that I can just scan it and send it around due to
ARRL & Author copyright matters. But I am willing to scan it.
With all due respect to John, K6IQL the author who spent much time
on his design......I would opine that an equivalent doubler could be
made from the Wenzel doubler circuits that are on the Wenzel web
page and from first-hand experience...I used such a 5-to-10 MHz
doubler
for all of my amateur radio projects up through 403GHz.
The K6IQL design, in brief, splits the 5MHz signal into two paths.
One passes to the LO port of a Double Balanced mixer, while the
second path goes through a 90-deg phase shift network and into the
RF port of that JMS-1MH mixer. The output is taken from the IF
port. The output is then buffered & filtered. He spent much design
effort
on the 90-deg phase shift network to keep it all temp stable.
Personally, I'm lazy and like the Wenzel "full wave rectifier" design
with
a nice BPF on the output to obtain a clean 10MHz.
-Brian, WA1ZMS/4
Looked it up and pretty amazing. Can't really say how well the ferrite will
go down to 5. It should.
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:22 PM, Dave M dgminala@mediacombb.net wrote:
Just a few days ago, I ordered parts to build a couple of the Wenzel
2-diode doublers, described in the same article as your full-wave diode
doubler, just in time to discover them on Ebay (via slow boat from China),
item# 171511157159. I inspected the components and layout in the picture
in the listing, and it certainly looks like the Wenzel FWB doubler. At
$9.99 USD, the price is cheap enough, especially since you get SMA
connectors on both ends. Might have to do a bit of solder work on the SMA
connectors if you want to put it into a little box.
The listing on the doubler on Ebay says that the low end is 10MHz, but
I'll bet that it will get down to 5MHz quite easily If there's any
trouble handling a 5MHz input, you could easily use a lower frequency
ferrite for the balun and make it work.
As you suggest, a BPF on the output and maybe a bit of amplification to
get the level up to a usable level should get you a fairly clean 10 MHz.
Dave M
Brian, WA1ZMS wrote:
Gentlemen-
I have my paper copy in front of me with the original article.
I am not certain that I can just scan it and send it around due to
ARRL & Author copyright matters. But I am willing to scan it.
With all due respect to John, K6IQL the author who spent much time
on his design......I would opine that an equivalent doubler could be
made from the Wenzel doubler circuits that are on the Wenzel web
page and from first-hand experience...I used such a 5-to-10 MHz
doubler
for all of my amateur radio projects up through 403GHz.
The K6IQL design, in brief, splits the 5MHz signal into two paths.
One passes to the LO port of a Double Balanced mixer, while the
second path goes through a 90-deg phase shift network and into the
RF port of that JMS-1MH mixer. The output is taken from the IF
port. The output is then buffered & filtered. He spent much design
effort
on the 90-deg phase shift network to keep it all temp stable.
Personally, I'm lazy and like the Wenzel "full wave rectifier" design
with
a nice BPF on the output to obtain a clean 10MHz.
-Brian, WA1ZMS/4
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
The Wenzel doubler has a bit of “stuff” in the middle of the bridge. It’s tuned a bit to give it best performance at a specific frequency. It’s not narrowband, but it is not a 2:1 bandwidth.
Bob
On Nov 12, 2014, at 7:22 PM, Dave M dgminala@mediacombb.net wrote:
Just a few days ago, I ordered parts to build a couple of the Wenzel 2-diode doublers, described in the same article as your full-wave diode doubler, just in time to discover them on Ebay (via slow boat from China), item# 171511157159. I inspected the components and layout in the picture in the listing, and it certainly looks like the Wenzel FWB doubler. At $9.99 USD, the price is cheap enough, especially since you get SMA connectors on both ends. Might have to do a bit of solder work on the SMA connectors if you want to put it into a little box.
The listing on the doubler on Ebay says that the low end is 10MHz, but I'll bet that it will get down to 5MHz quite easily If there's any trouble handling a 5MHz input, you could easily use a lower frequency ferrite for the balun and make it work.
As you suggest, a BPF on the output and maybe a bit of amplification to get the level up to a usable level should get you a fairly clean 10 MHz.
Dave M
Brian, WA1ZMS wrote:
Gentlemen-
I have my paper copy in front of me with the original article.
I am not certain that I can just scan it and send it around due to
ARRL & Author copyright matters. But I am willing to scan it.
With all due respect to John, K6IQL the author who spent much time
on his design......I would opine that an equivalent doubler could be
made from the Wenzel doubler circuits that are on the Wenzel web
page and from first-hand experience...I used such a 5-to-10 MHz
doubler
for all of my amateur radio projects up through 403GHz.
The K6IQL design, in brief, splits the 5MHz signal into two paths.
One passes to the LO port of a Double Balanced mixer, while the
second path goes through a 90-deg phase shift network and into the
RF port of that JMS-1MH mixer. The output is taken from the IF
port. The output is then buffered & filtered. He spent much design
effort
on the 90-deg phase shift network to keep it all temp stable.
Personally, I'm lazy and like the Wenzel "full wave rectifier" design
with
a nice BPF on the output to obtain a clean 10MHz.
-Brian, WA1ZMS/4
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
In the “as wired” configuration, that looks more like a full wave doubler than the full Wenzel tuned multiplier. You may be able to re-wire it for the full circuit.
Bob
On Nov 12, 2014, at 8:20 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Looked it up and pretty amazing. Can't really say how well the ferrite will
go down to 5. It should.
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:22 PM, Dave M dgminala@mediacombb.net wrote:
Just a few days ago, I ordered parts to build a couple of the Wenzel
2-diode doublers, described in the same article as your full-wave diode
doubler, just in time to discover them on Ebay (via slow boat from China),
item# 171511157159. I inspected the components and layout in the picture
in the listing, and it certainly looks like the Wenzel FWB doubler. At
$9.99 USD, the price is cheap enough, especially since you get SMA
connectors on both ends. Might have to do a bit of solder work on the SMA
connectors if you want to put it into a little box.
The listing on the doubler on Ebay says that the low end is 10MHz, but
I'll bet that it will get down to 5MHz quite easily If there's any
trouble handling a 5MHz input, you could easily use a lower frequency
ferrite for the balun and make it work.
As you suggest, a BPF on the output and maybe a bit of amplification to
get the level up to a usable level should get you a fairly clean 10 MHz.
Dave M
Brian, WA1ZMS wrote:
Gentlemen-
I have my paper copy in front of me with the original article.
I am not certain that I can just scan it and send it around due to
ARRL & Author copyright matters. But I am willing to scan it.
With all due respect to John, K6IQL the author who spent much time
on his design......I would opine that an equivalent doubler could be
made from the Wenzel doubler circuits that are on the Wenzel web
page and from first-hand experience...I used such a 5-to-10 MHz
doubler
for all of my amateur radio projects up through 403GHz.
The K6IQL design, in brief, splits the 5MHz signal into two paths.
One passes to the LO port of a Double Balanced mixer, while the
second path goes through a 90-deg phase shift network and into the
RF port of that JMS-1MH mixer. The output is taken from the IF
port. The output is then buffered & filtered. He spent much design
effort
on the 90-deg phase shift network to keep it all temp stable.
Personally, I'm lazy and like the Wenzel "full wave rectifier" design
with
a nice BPF on the output to obtain a clean 10MHz.
-Brian, WA1ZMS/4
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.