CL
Christopher Leidigh
Tue, May 28, 2019 2:44 AM
I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and we
briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has received
any response. It appears that Jonathan
had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in having
his add-ons (in particular import export)
adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same type of
communication as Jonathan did.
In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
ReachOut attempt (already done)
and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would disagree
that there will be a significant
gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that it's
been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
Christopher
I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and we
briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has received
any response. It appears that Jonathan
had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in having
his add-ons (in particular import export)
adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same type of
communication as Jonathan did.
In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
ReachOut attempt (already done)
and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would disagree
that there will be a significant
gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that it's
been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
Christopher
JK
Jonathan Kamens
Tue, May 28, 2019 2:30 PM
To be clear, I /did/ receive a response the first time I reached out:
Paolo told me he wasn't going to port the extension to TB68. When I
replied and offered to help, that's when he didn't respond.
Also, although English isn't Paolo's native language and it's sometimes
difficult to correctly infer tone when someone is not writing in their
native language, the one reply he did send me seemed rather salty. I'm
not sure exactly why he's copping an attitude about all this, but he
does seem to be.
The add-on page for ImportExportTools says it's released under GPL 3.0,
so if Paolo simply refuses to do the work to update it to TB68 or
collaborate with anyone else offering to help him, there's nothing
stopping any of us from just taking the source code, fixing it for TB68,
and releasing the fixed version. It seems like that should be a last
resort, but it's an option if that's what we need to do.
That would not be ideal since the id would change and we'd have to
figure out how to tell 500,000 users to switch to a different add-on,
but it would be better than losing the functionality entirely.
I honestly don't know why he's not willing to accept the multiple offers
of help people have made. Frankly, if someone with a demonstrated
ability to maintain TB add-ons emailed me tomorrow and offered to take
over the ones I wrote / maintain, I'd say yes in a heartbeat. shrug
jik
On 5/27/19 10:44 PM, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and we
briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has
received any response. It appears that Jonathan
had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in
having his add-ons (in particular import export)
adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same type
of communication as Jonathan did.
In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
ReachOut attempt (already done)
and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would
disagree that there will be a significant
gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that
it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
Christopher
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
To be clear, I /did/ receive a response the first time I reached out:
Paolo told me he wasn't going to port the extension to TB68. When I
replied and offered to help, that's when he didn't respond.
Also, although English isn't Paolo's native language and it's sometimes
difficult to correctly infer tone when someone is not writing in their
native language, the one reply he did send me seemed rather salty. I'm
not sure exactly why he's copping an attitude about all this, but he
does seem to be.
The add-on page for ImportExportTools says it's released under GPL 3.0,
so if Paolo simply refuses to do the work to update it to TB68 or
collaborate with anyone else offering to help him, there's nothing
stopping any of us from just taking the source code, fixing it for TB68,
and releasing the fixed version. It seems like that should be a last
resort, but it's an option if that's what we need to do.
That would not be ideal since the id would change and we'd have to
figure out how to tell 500,000 users to switch to a different add-on,
but it would be better than losing the functionality entirely.
I honestly don't know why he's not willing to accept the multiple offers
of help people have made. Frankly, if someone with a demonstrated
ability to maintain TB add-ons emailed me tomorrow and offered to take
over the ones I wrote / maintain, I'd say yes in a heartbeat. *shrug*
jik
On 5/27/19 10:44 PM, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
> I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
>
> I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and we
> briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
>
> Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
> reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
>
> and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has
> received any response. It appears that Jonathan
>
> had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in
> having his add-ons (in particular import export)
>
> adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same type
> of communication as Jonathan did.
>
>
> In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
> ReachOut attempt (already done)
>
> and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would
> disagree that there will be a significant
>
> gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
>
>
> I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
> only one. One way or another
>
> we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that
> it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
>
> I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
>
> Christopher
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maildev mailing list
> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
>
>
RS
Ryan Sipes
Tue, May 28, 2019 8:16 PM
I've reached out to Paolo about taking over the ATN listing. Based on
the status meeting today it seems like you and Christopher are two folks
who could perhaps take over development of the add-on (if you are
interested)? I'll send an accompanying email to discuss this more. We
can then, assuming he doesn't have a problem with it, post the newest
version on the same listing so that the users have an upgrade path.
I agree that it would be nice to continue to have this functionality
present to Thunderbird users in some form. It sounds like we may be able
to move some of this to core for the next release - but given how close
we are to 68 it appears it is not feasible for this one.
Let's talk. We can find a solution to support these users.
Ryan Sipes
Community and Business Development Manager
Thunderbird https://thunderbird.net
On 5/28/19 8:30 AM, Jonathan Kamens via Maildev wrote:
To be clear, I /did/ receive a response the first time I reached out:
Paolo told me he wasn't going to port the extension to TB68. When I
replied and offered to help, that's when he didn't respond.
Also, although English isn't Paolo's native language and it's
sometimes difficult to correctly infer tone when someone is not
writing in their native language, the one reply he did send me seemed
rather salty. I'm not sure exactly why he's copping an attitude about
all this, but he does seem to be.
The add-on page for ImportExportTools says it's released under GPL
3.0, so if Paolo simply refuses to do the work to update it to TB68 or
collaborate with anyone else offering to help him, there's nothing
stopping any of us from just taking the source code, fixing it for
TB68, and releasing the fixed version. It seems like that should be a
last resort, but it's an option if that's what we need to do.
That would not be ideal since the id would change and we'd have to
figure out how to tell 500,000 users to switch to a different add-on,
but it would be better than losing the functionality entirely.
I honestly don't know why he's not willing to accept the multiple
offers of help people have made. Frankly, if someone with a
demonstrated ability to maintain TB add-ons emailed me tomorrow and
offered to take over the ones I wrote / maintain, I'd say yes in a
heartbeat. shrug
jik
On 5/27/19 10:44 PM, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and we
briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has
received any response. It appears that Jonathan
had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in
having his add-ons (in particular import export)
adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same type
of communication as Jonathan did.
In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
ReachOut attempt (already done)
and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would
disagree that there will be a significant
gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that
it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
Christopher
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
I've reached out to Paolo about taking over the ATN listing. Based on
the status meeting today it seems like you and Christopher are two folks
who could perhaps take over development of the add-on (if you are
interested)? I'll send an accompanying email to discuss this more. We
can then, assuming he doesn't have a problem with it, post the newest
version on the same listing so that the users have an upgrade path.
I agree that it would be nice to continue to have this functionality
present to Thunderbird users in some form. It sounds like we may be able
to move some of this to core for the next release - but given how close
we are to 68 it appears it is not feasible for this one.
Let's talk. We can find a solution to support these users.
Ryan Sipes
Community and Business Development Manager
Thunderbird <https://thunderbird.net>
On 5/28/19 8:30 AM, Jonathan Kamens via Maildev wrote:
>
> To be clear, I /did/ receive a response the first time I reached out:
> Paolo told me he wasn't going to port the extension to TB68. When I
> replied and offered to help, that's when he didn't respond.
>
> Also, although English isn't Paolo's native language and it's
> sometimes difficult to correctly infer tone when someone is not
> writing in their native language, the one reply he did send me seemed
> rather salty. I'm not sure exactly why he's copping an attitude about
> all this, but he does seem to be.
>
> The add-on page for ImportExportTools says it's released under GPL
> 3.0, so if Paolo simply refuses to do the work to update it to TB68 or
> collaborate with anyone else offering to help him, there's nothing
> stopping any of us from just taking the source code, fixing it for
> TB68, and releasing the fixed version. It seems like that should be a
> last resort, but it's an option if that's what we need to do.
>
> That would not be ideal since the id would change and we'd have to
> figure out how to tell 500,000 users to switch to a different add-on,
> but it would be better than losing the functionality entirely.
>
> I honestly don't know why he's not willing to accept the multiple
> offers of help people have made. Frankly, if someone with a
> demonstrated ability to maintain TB add-ons emailed me tomorrow and
> offered to take over the ones I wrote / maintain, I'd say yes in a
> heartbeat. *shrug*
>
> jik
>
> On 5/27/19 10:44 PM, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
>> I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
>>
>> I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and we
>> briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
>>
>> Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
>> reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
>>
>> and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has
>> received any response. It appears that Jonathan
>>
>> had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in
>> having his add-ons (in particular import export)
>>
>> adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same type
>> of communication as Jonathan did.
>>
>>
>> In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
>> ReachOut attempt (already done)
>>
>> and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would
>> disagree that there will be a significant
>>
>> gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
>>
>>
>> I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
>> only one. One way or another
>>
>> we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that
>> it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
>>
>> I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
>>
>> Christopher
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Maildev mailing list
>> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
>> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maildev mailing list
> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
BB
Ben Bucksch
Tue, May 28, 2019 9:55 PM
+1 for integrating this into core. users need an easy way to move emails and settings from one machine to the next. this is essential functionality.
also, i don't think it's a good use of developers' time to run after non-responsive add-on authors. by nature, the unmaintained add-ons will often have non-responsive authors. this will not be an isolated case. i re-iterate my proposal to have a documented process to take over open source add-ons whose author does not respond.
Am 28. Mai 2019 22:16:59 MESZ schrieb Ryan Sipes ryan@thunderbird.net:
I've reached out to Paolo about taking over the ATN listing. Based on
the status meeting today it seems like you and Christopher are two
folks
who could perhaps take over development of the add-on (if you are
interested)? I'll send an accompanying email to discuss this more. We
can then, assuming he doesn't have a problem with it, post the newest
version on the same listing so that the users have an upgrade path.
I agree that it would be nice to continue to have this functionality
present to Thunderbird users in some form. It sounds like we may be
able
to move some of this to core for the next release - but given how close
we are to 68 it appears it is not feasible for this one.
Let's talk. We can find a solution to support these users.
Ryan Sipes
Community and Business Development Manager
Thunderbird https://thunderbird.net
On 5/28/19 8:30 AM, Jonathan Kamens via Maildev wrote:
To be clear, I /did/ receive a response the first time I reached out:
Paolo told me he wasn't going to port the extension to TB68. When I
replied and offered to help, that's when he didn't respond.
Also, although English isn't Paolo's native language and it's
sometimes difficult to correctly infer tone when someone is not
writing in their native language, the one reply he did send me seemed
rather salty. I'm not sure exactly why he's copping an attitude about
all this, but he does seem to be.
The add-on page for ImportExportTools says it's released under GPL
3.0, so if Paolo simply refuses to do the work to update it to TB68
collaborate with anyone else offering to help him, there's nothing
stopping any of us from just taking the source code, fixing it for
TB68, and releasing the fixed version. It seems like that should be a
last resort, but it's an option if that's what we need to do.
That would not be ideal since the id would change and we'd have to
figure out how to tell 500,000 users to switch to a different add-on,
but it would be better than losing the functionality entirely.
I honestly don't know why he's not willing to accept the multiple
offers of help people have made. Frankly, if someone with a
demonstrated ability to maintain TB add-ons emailed me tomorrow and
offered to take over the ones I wrote / maintain, I'd say yes in a
heartbeat. shrug
jik
On 5/27/19 10:44 PM, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and we
briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has
received any response. It appears that Jonathan
had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in
having his add-ons (in particular import export)
adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same type
of communication as Jonathan did.
In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
ReachOut attempt (already done)
and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would
disagree that there will be a significant
gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that
it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
Christopher
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
--
Sent from my phone. Please excuse the brevity.
+1 for integrating this into core. users need an easy way to move emails and settings from one machine to the next. this is essential functionality.
also, i don't think it's a good use of developers' time to run after non-responsive add-on authors. by nature, the unmaintained add-ons will often have non-responsive authors. this will not be an isolated case. i re-iterate my proposal to have a documented process to take over open source add-ons whose author does not respond.
Am 28. Mai 2019 22:16:59 MESZ schrieb Ryan Sipes <ryan@thunderbird.net>:
>I've reached out to Paolo about taking over the ATN listing. Based on
>the status meeting today it seems like you and Christopher are two
>folks
>who could perhaps take over development of the add-on (if you are
>interested)? I'll send an accompanying email to discuss this more. We
>can then, assuming he doesn't have a problem with it, post the newest
>version on the same listing so that the users have an upgrade path.
>
>I agree that it would be nice to continue to have this functionality
>present to Thunderbird users in some form. It sounds like we may be
>able
>to move some of this to core for the next release - but given how close
>we are to 68 it appears it is not feasible for this one.
>
>Let's talk. We can find a solution to support these users.
>
>Ryan Sipes
>Community and Business Development Manager
>Thunderbird <https://thunderbird.net>
>
>On 5/28/19 8:30 AM, Jonathan Kamens via Maildev wrote:
>>
>> To be clear, I /did/ receive a response the first time I reached out:
>> Paolo told me he wasn't going to port the extension to TB68. When I
>> replied and offered to help, that's when he didn't respond.
>>
>> Also, although English isn't Paolo's native language and it's
>> sometimes difficult to correctly infer tone when someone is not
>> writing in their native language, the one reply he did send me seemed
>> rather salty. I'm not sure exactly why he's copping an attitude about
>> all this, but he does seem to be.
>>
>> The add-on page for ImportExportTools says it's released under GPL
>> 3.0, so if Paolo simply refuses to do the work to update it to TB68
>or
>> collaborate with anyone else offering to help him, there's nothing
>> stopping any of us from just taking the source code, fixing it for
>> TB68, and releasing the fixed version. It seems like that should be a
>> last resort, but it's an option if that's what we need to do.
>>
>> That would not be ideal since the id would change and we'd have to
>> figure out how to tell 500,000 users to switch to a different add-on,
>> but it would be better than losing the functionality entirely.
>>
>> I honestly don't know why he's not willing to accept the multiple
>> offers of help people have made. Frankly, if someone with a
>> demonstrated ability to maintain TB add-ons emailed me tomorrow and
>> offered to take over the ones I wrote / maintain, I'd say yes in a
>> heartbeat. *shrug*
>>
>> jik
>>
>> On 5/27/19 10:44 PM, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
>>> I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
>>>
>>> I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and we
>>> briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
>>>
>>> Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
>>> reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
>>>
>>> and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has
>>> received any response. It appears that Jonathan
>>>
>>> had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in
>>> having his add-ons (in particular import export)
>>>
>>> adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same type
>>> of communication as Jonathan did.
>>>
>>>
>>> In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
>>> ReachOut attempt (already done)
>>>
>>> and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would
>>> disagree that there will be a significant
>>>
>>> gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
>>> only one. One way or another
>>>
>>> we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that
>>> it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
>>>
>>> I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
>>>
>>> Christopher
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Maildev mailing list
>>> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
>>>
>http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Maildev mailing list
>> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
>>
>http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
--
Sent from my phone. Please excuse the brevity.
MM
Magnus Melin
Wed, May 29, 2019 7:09 AM
Yes, integrating easier backup and data import is something we do want
to do in core - though not for 68.
-Magnus
On 29-05-2019 00:55, Ben Bucksch wrote:
+1 for integrating this into core. users need an easy way to move
emails and settings from one machine to the next. this is essential
functionality.
also, i don't think it's a good use of developers' time to run after
non-responsive add-on authors. by nature, the unmaintained add-ons
will often have non-responsive authors. this will not be an isolated
case. i re-iterate my proposal to have a documented process to take
over open source add-ons whose author does not respond.
Am 28. Mai 2019 22:16:59 MESZ schrieb Ryan Sipes ryan@thunderbird.net:
I've reached out to Paolo about taking over the ATN listing. Based
on the status meeting today it seems like you and Christopher are
two folks who could perhaps take over development of the add-on
(if you are interested)? I'll send an accompanying email to
discuss this more. We can then, assuming he doesn't have a problem
with it, post the newest version on the same listing so that the
users have an upgrade path.
I agree that it would be nice to continue to have this
functionality present to Thunderbird users in some form. It sounds
like we may be able to move some of this to core for the next
release - but given how close we are to 68 it appears it is not
feasible for this one.
Let's talk. We can find a solution to support these users.
Ryan Sipes
Community and Business Development Manager
Thunderbird <https://thunderbird.net>
On 5/28/19 8:30 AM, Jonathan Kamens via Maildev wrote:
To be clear, I /did/ receive a response the first time I reached
out: Paolo told me he wasn't going to port the extension to TB68.
When I replied and offered to help, that's when he didn't respond.
Also, although English isn't Paolo's native language and it's
sometimes difficult to correctly infer tone when someone is not
writing in their native language, the one reply he did send me
seemed rather salty. I'm not sure exactly why he's copping an
attitude about all this, but he does seem to be.
The add-on page for ImportExportTools says it's released under
GPL 3.0, so if Paolo simply refuses to do the work to update it
to TB68 or collaborate with anyone else offering to help him,
there's nothing stopping any of us from just taking the source
code, fixing it for TB68, and releasing the fixed version. It
seems like that should be a last resort, but it's an option if
that's what we need to do.
That would not be ideal since the id would change and we'd have
to figure out how to tell 500,000 users to switch to a different
add-on, but it would be better than losing the functionality
entirely.
I honestly don't know why he's not willing to accept the multiple
offers of help people have made. Frankly, if someone with a
demonstrated ability to maintain TB add-ons emailed me tomorrow
and offered to take over the ones I wrote / maintain, I'd say yes
in a heartbeat. *shrug*
jik
On 5/27/19 10:44 PM, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and
we briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has
received any response. It appears that Jonathan
had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in
having his add-ons (in particular import export)
adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same
type of communication as Jonathan did.
In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
ReachOut attempt (already done)
and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would
disagree that there will be a significant
gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not
the only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity
that it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
Christopher
_______________________________________________
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
_______________________________________________
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
Yes, integrating easier backup and data import is something we do want
to do in core - though not for 68.
-Magnus
On 29-05-2019 00:55, Ben Bucksch wrote:
> +1 for integrating this into core. users need an easy way to move
> emails and settings from one machine to the next. this is essential
> functionality.
>
> also, i don't think it's a good use of developers' time to run after
> non-responsive add-on authors. by nature, the unmaintained add-ons
> will often have non-responsive authors. this will not be an isolated
> case. i re-iterate my proposal to have a documented process to take
> over open source add-ons whose author does not respond.
>
> Am 28. Mai 2019 22:16:59 MESZ schrieb Ryan Sipes <ryan@thunderbird.net>:
>
> I've reached out to Paolo about taking over the ATN listing. Based
> on the status meeting today it seems like you and Christopher are
> two folks who could perhaps take over development of the add-on
> (if you are interested)? I'll send an accompanying email to
> discuss this more. We can then, assuming he doesn't have a problem
> with it, post the newest version on the same listing so that the
> users have an upgrade path.
>
> I agree that it would be nice to continue to have this
> functionality present to Thunderbird users in some form. It sounds
> like we may be able to move some of this to core for the next
> release - but given how close we are to 68 it appears it is not
> feasible for this one.
>
> Let's talk. We can find a solution to support these users.
>
> Ryan Sipes
> Community and Business Development Manager
> Thunderbird <https://thunderbird.net>
>
> On 5/28/19 8:30 AM, Jonathan Kamens via Maildev wrote:
>>
>> To be clear, I /did/ receive a response the first time I reached
>> out: Paolo told me he wasn't going to port the extension to TB68.
>> When I replied and offered to help, that's when he didn't respond.
>>
>> Also, although English isn't Paolo's native language and it's
>> sometimes difficult to correctly infer tone when someone is not
>> writing in their native language, the one reply he did send me
>> seemed rather salty. I'm not sure exactly why he's copping an
>> attitude about all this, but he does seem to be.
>>
>> The add-on page for ImportExportTools says it's released under
>> GPL 3.0, so if Paolo simply refuses to do the work to update it
>> to TB68 or collaborate with anyone else offering to help him,
>> there's nothing stopping any of us from just taking the source
>> code, fixing it for TB68, and releasing the fixed version. It
>> seems like that should be a last resort, but it's an option if
>> that's what we need to do.
>>
>> That would not be ideal since the id would change and we'd have
>> to figure out how to tell 500,000 users to switch to a different
>> add-on, but it would be better than losing the functionality
>> entirely.
>>
>> I honestly don't know why he's not willing to accept the multiple
>> offers of help people have made. Frankly, if someone with a
>> demonstrated ability to maintain TB add-ons emailed me tomorrow
>> and offered to take over the ones I wrote / maintain, I'd say yes
>> in a heartbeat. *shrug*
>>
>> jik
>>
>> On 5/27/19 10:44 PM, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
>>> I wanted to jump in the conversation about Import/Export tools
>>>
>>> I've been discussing this issue with Ryan for some time now and
>>> we briefly discussed it in the last planning call.
>>>
>>> Currently it sounds like there have been at least three or four
>>> reach-outs to Paolo. I e-mailed him over a week ago
>>>
>>> and Ryan had reached out before as well. Apparently nobody has
>>> received any response. It appears that Jonathan
>>>
>>> had no better luck. I asked Paolo if he would be interested in
>>> having his add-ons (in particular import export)
>>>
>>> adopted by someone or to work with someone. Basically the same
>>> type of communication as Jonathan did.
>>>
>>>
>>> In the last planning call we decided that we would make one more
>>> ReachOut attempt (already done)
>>>
>>> and then decide a course of action. I don't think anyone would
>>> disagree that there will be a significant
>>>
>>> gap in functionality for Thunderbird 68 without this.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not
>>> the only one. One way or another
>>>
>>> we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity
>>> that it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
>>>
>>> I would suggest a discussion slot for the call tomorrow...
>>>
>>> Christopher
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Maildev mailing list
>>> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
>>> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Maildev mailing list
>> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
>> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
>
>
> --
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse the brevity.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maildev mailing list
> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
MH
Matt Harris
Sat, Jun 1, 2019 12:39 AM
On 29-May-19 4:39 PM, Magnus Melin wrote:
Yes, integrating easier backup and data import is something we do want
to do in core - though not for 68.
On 29-May-19 4:39 PM, Magnus Melin wrote:
>
> Yes, integrating easier backup and data import is something we do want
> to do in core - though not for 68.
>
Unfortunate really.
Anyone looking for features Thunderbird badly needs or fixes for poor
implementations need only browser the index to his add-ons.
https://freeshell.de//~kaosmos/index-en.html
Matt
MR
Mark Rousell
Sun, Jun 2, 2019 11:58 PM
On 28/05/2019 03:44, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that
it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would just like to add that, unless Paolo gives you explicit
permission to take over his addon[1] then, as far as I can see, you
cannot legally take it over.
What you can do, of course, since his addon in licensed under GPL, is to
fork it. But that means it would have to be a different addon with a
different name, just based upon the earlier GPL'd code.
In general, regardless of licence, just because a piece of software
appears to be abandoned does not mean that anyone is free to continue
developing it without permission from its author or rights holder. Open
source licences just mean you can fork, not take over.
If the forked code is to be built into Thunderbird in due course then
this, of course, avoids the potential difficulty of alerting users to
change to a new addon.
Footnote:-
1: Or if he has earlier agreed to some sort of explicit term that would
allow his addon to be taken over.
P.S. May I also remind readers of my previous suggestion for smoothing
the process for users of upgrading from an old, abandoned addon to a
new, actively maintained, one: A metadata tag field for each addon that
allows a new addon to list previous addons that it could upgrade or
replace. The UI in Thunderbird and ATN to use this tag information to
offer users possible upgrade routes from addons that they currently have
installed to newer ones with upgraded or replacement functionality.
--
Mark Rousell
On 28/05/2019 03:44, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
> I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the
> only one. One way or another
>
> we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that
> it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would just like to add that, unless Paolo gives you explicit
permission to take over his addon[1] then, as far as I can see, you
cannot legally take it over.
What you can do, of course, since his addon in licensed under GPL, is to
*fork* it. But that means it would have to be a different addon with a
different name, just based upon the earlier GPL'd code.
In general, regardless of licence, just because a piece of software
appears to be abandoned does *not* mean that anyone is free to continue
developing it without permission from its author or rights holder. Open
source licences just mean you can fork, not take over.
If the forked code is to be built into Thunderbird in due course then
this, of course, avoids the potential difficulty of alerting users to
change to a new addon.
Footnote:-
1: Or if he has earlier agreed to some sort of explicit term that would
allow his addon to be taken over.
P.S. May I also remind readers of my previous suggestion for smoothing
the process for users of upgrading from an old, abandoned addon to a
new, actively maintained, one: A metadata tag field for each addon that
allows a new addon to list previous addons that it could upgrade or
replace. The UI in Thunderbird and ATN to use this tag information to
offer users possible upgrade routes from addons that they currently have
installed to newer ones with upgraded or replacement functionality.
--
Mark Rousell
PK
Philipp Kewisch
Mon, Jun 3, 2019 6:34 AM
Note also, GPL is not compatible with MPL. We cannot actually move the code into Thunderbird core, but I believe we can implement the feature - completely from scratch, without taking the GPL code as a template.
The reason is that by the GPL terms, Thunderbird would have to become GPL as well.
What we need to make it part of Thunderbird is written confirmation from the original author, and ALL contributors we'd be taking code from, that they are willing to relicense their code as MPL.
Philipp
On 28/05/2019 03:44, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would just like to add that, unless Paolo gives you explicit permission to take over his addon[1] then, as far as I can see, you cannot legally take it over.
What you can do, of course, since his addon in licensed under GPL, is to fork it. But that means it would have to be a different addon with a different name, just based upon the earlier GPL'd code.
In general, regardless of licence, just because a piece of software appears to be abandoned does not mean that anyone is free to continue developing it without permission from its author or rights holder. Open source licences just mean you can fork, not take over.
If the forked code is to be built into Thunderbird in due course then this, of course, avoids the potential difficulty of alerting users to change to a new addon.
Footnote:-
1: Or if he has earlier agreed to some sort of explicit term that would allow his addon to be taken over.
P.S. May I also remind readers of my previous suggestion for smoothing the process for users of upgrading from an old, abandoned addon to a new, actively maintained, one: A metadata tag field for each addon that allows a new addon to list previous addons that it could upgrade or replace. The UI in Thunderbird and ATN to use this tag information to offer users possible upgrade routes from addons that they currently have installed to newer ones with upgraded or replacement functionality.
--
Mark Rousell
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
Note also, GPL is not compatible with MPL. We cannot actually move the code into Thunderbird core, but I believe we can implement the feature - completely from scratch, without taking the GPL code as a template.
The reason is that by the GPL terms, Thunderbird would have to become GPL as well.
What we need to make it part of Thunderbird is written confirmation from the original author, and ALL contributors we'd be taking code from, that they are willing to relicense their code as MPL.
Philipp
> On 3. Jun 2019, at 1:58 AM, Mark Rousell <mark.rousell@signal100.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28/05/2019 03:44, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
>> I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the only one. One way or another
>>
>> we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
>
> I would just like to add that, unless Paolo gives you explicit permission to take over his addon[1] then, as far as I can see, you cannot legally take it over.
>
> What you can do, of course, since his addon in licensed under GPL, is to *fork* it. But that means it would have to be a different addon with a different name, just based upon the earlier GPL'd code.
>
> In general, regardless of licence, just because a piece of software appears to be abandoned does *not* mean that anyone is free to continue developing it without permission from its author or rights holder. Open source licences just mean you can fork, not take over.
>
> If the forked code is to be built into Thunderbird in due course then this, of course, avoids the potential difficulty of alerting users to change to a new addon.
>
>
>
> Footnote:-
> 1: Or if he has earlier agreed to some sort of explicit term that would allow his addon to be taken over.
>
>
> P.S. May I also remind readers of my previous suggestion for smoothing the process for users of upgrading from an old, abandoned addon to a new, actively maintained, one: A metadata tag field for each addon that allows a new addon to list previous addons that it could upgrade or replace. The UI in Thunderbird and ATN to use this tag information to offer users possible upgrade routes from addons that they currently have installed to newer ones with upgraded or replacement functionality.
>
> --
> Mark Rousell
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maildev mailing list
> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
AH
Andrei Hajdukewycz
Mon, Jun 3, 2019 7:01 AM
On 2019-06-02 11:34 p.m., Philipp Kewisch wrote:
Note also, GPL is not compatible with MPL. We cannot actually move the code into Thunderbird core, but I believe we can implement the feature - completely from scratch, without taking the GPL code as a template.
The reason is that by the GPL terms, Thunderbird would have to become GPL as well.
What we need to make it part of Thunderbird is written confirmation from the original author, and ALL contributors we'd be taking code from, that they are willing to relicense their code as MPL.
It's been generally agreed(in the meeting and irc discussions ive seen,
anyway) that anything we implement in core should be designed and
implemented for core and for all users, not copied from ImportExportTools.
We're just taking the broad strokes of what features people might want
from the add-on, I really don't think anyone thinks it's a good idea to
copy the code. There are a lot of things that can be improved or done
differently anyway.
I don't think we benefit from attempting to reuse any code from the add-on.
On 2019-06-02 11:34 p.m., Philipp Kewisch wrote:
> Note also, GPL is not compatible with MPL. We cannot actually move the code into Thunderbird core, but I believe we can implement the feature - completely from scratch, without taking the GPL code as a template.
>
> The reason is that by the GPL terms, Thunderbird would have to become GPL as well.
>
> What we need to make it part of Thunderbird is written confirmation from the original author, and ALL contributors we'd be taking code from, that they are willing to relicense their code as MPL.
It's been generally agreed(in the meeting and irc discussions ive seen,
anyway) that anything we implement in core should be designed and
implemented for core and for all users, not copied from ImportExportTools.
We're just taking the broad strokes of what features people might want
from the add-on, I really don't think anyone thinks it's a good idea to
copy the code. There are a lot of things that can be improved or done
differently anyway.
I don't think we benefit from attempting to reuse any code from the add-on.
JB
John Bieling
Mon, Jun 3, 2019 7:04 AM
Hi,
what features of the MFFAB addon are its killer-features? Maybe there
are other addons, which also provide that functionality?
For example the "category" feature is also avail with the
CategoryManager addon (supporting the categories of MFFAB), it also
comes with a powerful (category based) CSV import/export function.
The option to show more columns in the AB is probably even easier to
implement directly in core, than in an addon. I could take a look at that.
What else is there?
John
Am 03.06.2019 um 08:34 schrieb Philipp Kewisch:
Note also, GPL is not compatible with MPL. We cannot actually move the code into Thunderbird core, but I believe we can implement the feature - completely from scratch, without taking the GPL code as a template.
The reason is that by the GPL terms, Thunderbird would have to become GPL as well.
What we need to make it part of Thunderbird is written confirmation from the original author, and ALL contributors we'd be taking code from, that they are willing to relicense their code as MPL.
Philipp
On 28/05/2019 03:44, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the only one. One way or another
we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
I would just like to add that, unless Paolo gives you explicit permission to take over his addon[1] then, as far as I can see, you cannot legally take it over.
What you can do, of course, since his addon in licensed under GPL, is to fork it. But that means it would have to be a different addon with a different name, just based upon the earlier GPL'd code.
In general, regardless of licence, just because a piece of software appears to be abandoned does not mean that anyone is free to continue developing it without permission from its author or rights holder. Open source licences just mean you can fork, not take over.
If the forked code is to be built into Thunderbird in due course then this, of course, avoids the potential difficulty of alerting users to change to a new addon.
Footnote:-
1: Or if he has earlier agreed to some sort of explicit term that would allow his addon to be taken over.
P.S. May I also remind readers of my previous suggestion for smoothing the process for users of upgrading from an old, abandoned addon to a new, actively maintained, one: A metadata tag field for each addon that allows a new addon to list previous addons that it could upgrade or replace. The UI in Thunderbird and ATN to use this tag information to offer users possible upgrade routes from addons that they currently have installed to newer ones with upgraded or replacement functionality.
--
Mark Rousell
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
Hi,
what features of the MFFAB addon are its killer-features? Maybe there
are other addons, which also provide that functionality?
For example the "category" feature is also avail with the
CategoryManager addon (supporting the categories of MFFAB), it also
comes with a powerful (category based) CSV import/export function.
The option to show more columns in the AB is probably even easier to
implement directly in core, than in an addon. I could take a look at that.
What else is there?
John
Am 03.06.2019 um 08:34 schrieb Philipp Kewisch:
> Note also, GPL is not compatible with MPL. We cannot actually move the code into Thunderbird core, but I believe we can implement the feature - completely from scratch, without taking the GPL code as a template.
>
> The reason is that by the GPL terms, Thunderbird would have to become GPL as well.
>
> What we need to make it part of Thunderbird is written confirmation from the original author, and ALL contributors we'd be taking code from, that they are willing to relicense their code as MPL.
>
> Philipp
>
>> On 3. Jun 2019, at 1:58 AM, Mark Rousell <mark.rousell@signal100.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/05/2019 03:44, Christopher Leidigh wrote:
>>> I would volunteer to work on an update for 68 assuming I was not the only one. One way or another
>>>
>>> we still really need some sort of blessing or at least clarity that it's been abandoned for us to take it over.
>> I would just like to add that, unless Paolo gives you explicit permission to take over his addon[1] then, as far as I can see, you cannot legally take it over.
>>
>> What you can do, of course, since his addon in licensed under GPL, is to *fork* it. But that means it would have to be a different addon with a different name, just based upon the earlier GPL'd code.
>>
>> In general, regardless of licence, just because a piece of software appears to be abandoned does *not* mean that anyone is free to continue developing it without permission from its author or rights holder. Open source licences just mean you can fork, not take over.
>>
>> If the forked code is to be built into Thunderbird in due course then this, of course, avoids the potential difficulty of alerting users to change to a new addon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Footnote:-
>> 1: Or if he has earlier agreed to some sort of explicit term that would allow his addon to be taken over.
>>
>>
>> P.S. May I also remind readers of my previous suggestion for smoothing the process for users of upgrading from an old, abandoned addon to a new, actively maintained, one: A metadata tag field for each addon that allows a new addon to list previous addons that it could upgrade or replace. The UI in Thunderbird and ATN to use this tag information to offer users possible upgrade routes from addons that they currently have installed to newer ones with upgraded or replacement functionality.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Rousell
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Maildev mailing list
>> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
>> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maildev mailing list
> Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
> http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
