3 years ago I gave up on Nobeltec after using their application for about 4 years. I had VNS and Admiral, with and without Dongles. I also had their 1st generation RADAR and their upgraded 2nd generation technology (Ethernet rather than USB). In summary: a. VNS is (was) a complex set of code that had been added to over time, making it less and less stable, with too many features that were put in for marketing hype b. While I find the people at Nobeltec to be really good folks, they are stuck having to deliver profit to a larger corporation (Boeing) and securing their revenue in the charting space is a CRITICAL revenue stream to protect, therefore the dongles are a necessity. Given the opportunity, far too many people will copy and steal charts rather than buy them. c. If I had a large investment in charts and their new application was meeting my needs, or if I had headed down the RADAR path with them, I'd probably stay with the application and deal with the dongle issue. As suggested, I put a USB extension cable on the laptop and put the dongle at the end of that. A dongle is no more likely to fail than any other part of the laptop, your power cable is just as likely to cause problems as the USB cable. Deal with it. If your laptop is your navigation tool, it should be very securely installed Having said this, I switched to Rosepoint Navigation's Coastal Explorer. I have found: a. The application meets all my needs, but they never brought their RADAR product to market, in spite of talking about it for some time. I think they just couldn't justify the costs in adding it and supporting it for the small number of customers that would invest in it. b. In 1,600 hours of operation (the application is running if the boat motor is running) it has crashed twice. Each crash resulted in no data lost or problem other than restarting the application. I consider this level of reliability good. It is easy to use, does everything I need it to do, and overall I'd rate my satisfaction as a 4.5 out of 5. c. I believe I purchased Maptech charts for Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean. I think I paid about $500 for that content, and then used the ENC's from NOAA for the US. I find both the vector and raster charts to be great. I'd like more control over the fonts in vector charts, but it's no big deal to zoom in and out to read locations when necessary. Oh, I just remembered, if I had to purchase that content from Nobeltec I think it would have cost me about $3,500. d. Again, the folks at Rosepoint are great guys, they tend to be optimistic in quoting delivery dates and features, but over time they have delivered most of what they have promised. In summary, my boat (Alanui, Nordhavn 40) has two charting systems, PC based and Furuno. I'm a strong believer in redundancy and enjoy using a pc based system for planning and an appliance system for primary navigation needs. If long distance passages are the goal I would implement a system as I've described, but for near coastal cruising I'd have to vote at this point for an appliance because you can't get Radar from anyone other than Nobeltec, and I've decided not to use their application in the future. I hope that makes sense. Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA

Well these are all good observations, my last $0.02 is this Nobeltec a - very supportive, all problems reported are fixed (although sometimes in the next release) b - has only crashed once in 4 years, no data loss - position still maintained and the log was accurate c - costs more (but the best you can do in this world is get what you pay for - you can easily overpay for junk) d - accurate and current charts e - far better route planning, ETA, fuel estimation tools etc. Rose Point a - simpler interface b - poorer chart representation and declutter tools c - less "in flight" information d - poorer and non integrated chart support outside of the USA. On Carmen we have three systems, Raymarine C-MAP; Nobeltec VNS Max Pro with CMAP charts; Coastal Explorer with the charts it came with.Hardware Raymarine, Navigation PC (ACER), Ship's PC (DELL) The Raymarime CMAP and the Nobeltec (and Radar) are used for navigation, the Coastal Explorer is on the ship's PC with a independent GPS and the weather systems. Both will and do work. It depends on where you are going and how much you like software. Anthony CARMEN NT42 Avalon, Santa Catalina, CA - heading south On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 1:07 AM, Scott E. Bulger <scottebulger@gmail.com>wrote: > 3 years ago I gave up on Nobeltec after using their application for about 4 > years. I had VNS and Admiral, with and without Dongles. I also had their > 1st generation RADAR and their upgraded 2nd generation technology (Ethernet > rather than USB). In summary: > > > > a. VNS is (was) a complex set of code that had been added to over > time, making it less and less stable, with too many features that were put > in for marketing hype > > b. While I find the people at Nobeltec to be really good folks, they > are stuck having to deliver profit to a larger corporation (Boeing) and > securing their revenue in the charting space is a CRITICAL revenue stream > to > protect, therefore the dongles are a necessity. Given the opportunity, far > too many people will copy and steal charts rather than buy them. > > c. If I had a large investment in charts and their new application > was > meeting my needs, or if I had headed down the RADAR path with them, I'd > probably stay with the application and deal with the dongle issue. As > suggested, I put a USB extension cable on the laptop and put the dongle at > the end of that. A dongle is no more likely to fail than any other part of > the laptop, your power cable is just as likely to cause problems as the USB > cable. Deal with it. If your laptop is your navigation tool, it should be > very securely installed > > > > Having said this, I switched to Rosepoint Navigation's Coastal Explorer. I > have found: > > a. The application meets all my needs, but they never brought their > RADAR product to market, in spite of talking about it for some time. I > think they just couldn't justify the costs in adding it and supporting it > for the small number of customers that would invest in it. > > b. In 1,600 hours of operation (the application is running if the boat > motor is running) it has crashed twice. Each crash resulted in no data > lost > or problem other than restarting the application. I consider this level of > reliability good. It is easy to use, does everything I need it to do, and > overall I'd rate my satisfaction as a 4.5 out of 5. > > c. I believe I purchased Maptech charts for Mexico, Central America > and the Caribbean. I think I paid about $500 for that content, and then > used the ENC's from NOAA for the US. I find both the vector and raster > charts to be great. I'd like more control over the fonts in vector charts, > but it's no big deal to zoom in and out to read locations when necessary. > Oh, I just remembered, if I had to purchase that content from Nobeltec I > think it would have cost me about $3,500. > > d. Again, the folks at Rosepoint are great guys, they tend to be > optimistic in quoting delivery dates and features, but over time they have > delivered most of what they have promised. > > > > In summary, my boat (Alanui, Nordhavn 40) has two charting systems, PC > based > and Furuno. I'm a strong believer in redundancy and enjoy using a pc based > system for planning and an appliance system for primary navigation needs. > If long distance passages are the goal I would implement a system as I've > described, but for near coastal cruising I'd have to vote at this point for > an appliance because you can't get Radar from anyone other than Nobeltec, > and I've decided not to use their application in the future. I hope that > makes sense. > > > > Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.