Guys and Gals, Discussing an owners list or it's openness is not the focus of this forum. You could make a leap of logic and say that one boat and design process may be better than another because of the openness of the designers and principals of the company, but how that's going to translate into real Passagemaking discussion is not clear (at least to me). I'd suggest we return to some meaningful discussion on PPM or other issues that we can do something about. Believe me, your not missing anything by not being on the Nordhavn Owners list. Few Nordhavn owner reveal anything bad about their boats because they are going to sell it someday. Besides, all the really valuable contributors have been banished from the list by its list owner anyway. Also, PLEASE trim your replies. Anytime you hit REPLY and don't trim the previous email you are wasting someone else's money. People in remote locations pay for every single bit of data (8 bits in a byte) that arrives at their computer. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE trim your replies. Scott E. Bulger, ALANUI, Nordhavn 40II, Seattle WA