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b210 USB detect problem

TF
Thomas Fabricius
Tue, Aug 6, 2019 1:40 PM

Hi,

we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have equipment where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system does not come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to resolve the problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the system.

Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before answering)…

*PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance a power break)

*The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC.

*The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached.

*This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a single PC type nor B210 device.

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Remove all power from PC and B210.

  2. Insert USB into PC.

  3. Apply power to the devices.

  4. Start the PC.

  5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board.

  6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log:

[  23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using xhci_hcd [  29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110 [  44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110 [  44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [  45.400311] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd [  56.240225] usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [  56.368230] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd [  66.992306] usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [  66.992363] usb usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device

The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power drain was exceeded by the USB device.

  1. Our application prints:

Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device Address:

num_recv_frames: 512
  1. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for instance run:  $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device

Workarounds that works:

  • Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same USB port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either, and one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the PC)

  • Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210.

  • Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot.

Workarounds that haven't worked:

  • Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it off and then on (power cable off and on).

  • Try to programmatically remove power from USB device:

    lsusb

    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level

    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level

    lsusb

    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level

    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level

    lsusb

  • Try to remove the highspeed USB driver:

    lsusb

    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind

    lsusb

    dmesg

    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind

    lsusb

  • Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device:

    lsusb

    lspci

    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/remove

    lsusb

    lspci

    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan

    lsusb

    lspci

Workarounds that haven't been tried:

  • Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered.

  • Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the B210 board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall installing a 100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix.

  • Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600) such that external power is always used and not disconnected before any USB communication. Any side effects ?

Root cause:

We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and external power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external B210 power is not attached.

Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather fragile.

Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB is attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to the state it had when everything was powered on from scratch.

Hi, we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have equipment where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system does not come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to resolve the problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the system. Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before answering)… *PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance a power break) *The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC. *The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached. *This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a single PC type nor B210 device. Steps to reproduce: 1. Remove all power from PC and B210. 2. Insert USB into PC. 3. Apply power to the devices. 4. Start the PC. 5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board. 6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log: [ 23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using xhci_hcd [ 29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110 [ 44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110 [ 44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [ 45.400311] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd [ 56.240225] usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [ 56.368230] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd [ 66.992306] usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [ 66.992363] usb usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power drain was exceeded by the USB device. 7. Our application prints: Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device Address: num_recv_frames: 512 8. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for instance run: $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device Workarounds that works: * Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same USB port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either, and one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the PC) * Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210. * Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot. Workarounds that haven't worked: * Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it off and then on (power cable off and on). * Try to programmatically remove power from USB device: lsusb echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level lsusb echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level lsusb * Try to remove the highspeed USB driver: lsusb echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind lsusb dmesg echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind lsusb * Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device: lsusb lspci echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/0000\:00\:14.0/remove lsusb lspci echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan lsusb lspci Workarounds that haven't been tried: * Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered. * Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the B210 board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall installing a 100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix. * Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600) such that external power is always used and not disconnected before any USB communication. Any side effects ? Root cause: We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and external power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external B210 power is not attached. Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather fragile. Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB is attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to the state it had when everything was powered on from scratch.
MM
Marcus Müller
Tue, Aug 6, 2019 3:39 PM

Hi Thomas,

let me quickly address a few of these issues
On Tue, 2019-08-06 at 15:40 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users
wrote:

Hi,
we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have
equipment where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system
does not come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to
resolve the problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the
system.
Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before answering)…

*PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance a
power break)

I've seen that before on x86 industrial PCs. I think it might be a
combination of overtasked on-board USB voltage supplies and USB host
controller firmware.

*The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC.

That means it's not in lsusb?

*The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached.

That at least rules out power supply problems.

*This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a
single PC type nor B210 device.

Ok, good to know!

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Remove all power from PC and B210.
  2. Insert USB into PC.
  3. Apply power to the devices.
  4. Start the PC.
  5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board.
  6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log:

[  23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using
xhci_hcd [  29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error
-110 [  44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110
[  44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [  45.400311] usb
1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd [  56.240225]
usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [  56.368230] usb
1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd [  66.992306]
usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [  66.992363] usb
usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device

The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power
drain was exceeded by the USB device.

OK, is the external power supply you use the stock ettus one, or are
you using something different?

  1. Our application prints:

Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device
Address:
num_recv_frames: 512

  1. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for instance
    run:  $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device

Workarounds that works:

  • Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same
    USB port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either,
    and one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the
    PC)

There's a high probability that means that some polyfuse has been
triggered, in my experience. I've seen that in systems where there was
no shared ground between USRP supply and PC, and the powering of either
device caused a significant inrush current (I guess, couldn't measure
back then).

  • Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210.

That's interesting; s700 really fully resets the USB controller, but I
don't think the full board (would have to check).

  • Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot.

<-- that's the workaround I'd go for, see below.

Workarounds that haven't worked:

  • Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it off
    and then on (power cable off and on).

  • Try to programmatically remove power from USB device:

    lsusb
    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level
    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level
    lsusb
    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level
    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level
    lsusb

  • Try to remove the highspeed USB driver:

    lsusb
    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee
    /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind
    lsusb
    dmesg
    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind
    lsusb

  • Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device:

    lsusb
    lspci
    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/remove
    lsusb
    lspci
    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan
    lsusb
    lspci

Sad.

Workarounds that haven't been tried:

  • Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered.
  • Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the B210
    board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall installing
    a 100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix.

If its really about current draws, best guess is that this would
actually make it worse.

  • Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600)
    such that external power is always used and not disconnected before
    any USB communication. Any side effects ?

Voiding a warranty.

What you could try: If you have a spare USB cable, gently circumsize
the plastic mantling in two places a couple cm apart, slice open the
mantling, find the red cable inside and cut it.

That would remove the 5V powering from the host.
Haven't checked whether that works with the current firmware, though :(

Root cause:
We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and external
power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed
before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external B210
power is not attached.
Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is
attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather
fragile.
Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB is
attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is
removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to
the state it had when everything was powered on from scratch.

Hm, yeah, the LED behaviour of Q600 was erratic for multiple customers
who had no other problems.

You don't happen to have an oscilloscope that you could attach to a
couple of power test points on the B200, trigger on edge, and see
whether this suspicion of yours works out to be right?

Best regards,
Marcus

Hi Thomas, let me quickly address a few of these issues On Tue, 2019-08-06 at 15:40 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users wrote: > Hi, > we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have > equipment where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system > does not come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to > resolve the problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the > system. > Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before answering)… > > *PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance a > power break) I've seen that before on x86 industrial PCs. I think it might be a combination of overtasked on-board USB voltage supplies and USB host controller firmware. > *The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC. That means it's not in `lsusb`? > *The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached. > That at least rules out power supply problems. > *This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a > single PC type nor B210 device. Ok, good to know! > > Steps to reproduce: > 1. Remove all power from PC and B210. > 2. Insert USB into PC. > 3. Apply power to the devices. > 4. Start the PC. > 5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board. > 6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log: > > [ 23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using > xhci_hcd [ 29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error > -110 [ 44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110 > [ 44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [ 45.400311] usb > 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd [ 56.240225] > usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [ 56.368230] usb > 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd [ 66.992306] > usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [ 66.992363] usb > usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device > > The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power > drain was exceeded by the USB device. OK, is the external power supply you use the stock ettus one, or are you using something different? > > 7. Our application prints: > > Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device > Address: > num_recv_frames: 512 > > 8. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for instance > run: $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device > > Workarounds that works: > * Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same > USB port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either, > and one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the > PC) There's a high probability that means that some polyfuse has been triggered, in my experience. I've seen that in systems where there was no shared ground between USRP supply and PC, and the powering of either device caused a significant inrush current (I guess, couldn't measure back then). > > * Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210. That's interesting; s700 really fully resets the USB controller, but I don't think the full board (would have to check). > > * Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot. <-- that's the workaround I'd go for, see below. > > Workarounds that haven't worked: > * Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it off > and then on (power cable off and on). > > * Try to programmatically remove power from USB device: > > lsusb > echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level > echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level > lsusb > echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level > echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level > lsusb > > * Try to remove the highspeed USB driver: > > lsusb > echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee > /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind > lsusb > dmesg > echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind > lsusb > > * Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device: > > lsusb > lspci > echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/0000\:00\:14.0/remove > lsusb > lspci > echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan > lsusb > lspci > Sad. > Workarounds that haven't been tried: > * Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered. > * Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the B210 > board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall installing > a 100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix. If its really about current draws, best guess is that this would actually make it worse. > * Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600) > such that external power is always used and not disconnected before > any USB communication. Any side effects ? Voiding a warranty. What you could try: If you have a spare USB cable, gently circumsize the plastic mantling in two places a couple cm apart, slice open the mantling, find the red cable inside and cut it. That would remove the 5V powering from the host. Haven't checked whether that works with the current firmware, though :( > > Root cause: > We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and external > power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed > before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external B210 > power is not attached. > Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is > attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather > fragile. > Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB is > attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is > removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to > the state it had when everything was powered on from scratch. > Hm, yeah, the LED behaviour of Q600 was erratic for multiple customers who had no other problems. You don't happen to have an oscilloscope that you could attach to a couple of power test points on the B200, trigger on edge, and see whether this suspicion of yours works out to be right? Best regards, Marcus
TF
Thomas Fabricius
Tue, Aug 6, 2019 7:23 PM

Hi Marcus

No detect = not in lsusb!

The suspision is (more or less) confirmed:
Experiment 1:
-Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off
-Turn on PC: Led off
-Plug in USB cable: Led orange to indicate USB power
-Device is in lsusb list (ie. everything is good just from USB power!)
-Plug in external power: Led change to blue indicating external power
-Unplug USB cable: Led stays blue

Experiment 2:
-Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off
-Turn on PC: Led off
-Plug in external power: Led off
-Plug in USB cable: Led blue
-Device is in lsusb list
-Unplug USB cable: Led stays blue

Experiment 3:
-Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off
-Turn on PC: Led off
-Plug in external power: Led off
-Plug in USB cable without power cord (cut as suggested): Led off
-Unplug USB cable: Led off

Inrush can not be the problem, cause everything is fine just coming up with USB power only, it though could be the switch-over to external power ?!?!?

/thomas

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Müller marcus.mueller@ettus.com
Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2019 17.39
To: Thomas Fabricius tf@chora.dk; usrp-users@lists.ettus.com
Subject: Re: [USRP-users] b210 USB detect problem

Hi Thomas,

let me quickly address a few of these issues On Tue, 2019-08-06 at 15:40 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users
wrote:

Hi,
we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have equipment
where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system does not
come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to resolve the
problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the system.
Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before answering)…

*PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance a
power break)

I've seen that before on x86 industrial PCs. I think it might be a combination of overtasked on-board USB voltage supplies and USB host controller firmware.

*The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC.

That means it's not in lsusb?

*The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached.

That at least rules out power supply problems.

*This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a single
PC type nor B210 device.

Ok, good to know!

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Remove all power from PC and B210.
  2. Insert USB into PC.
  3. Apply power to the devices.
  4. Start the PC.
  5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board.
  6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log:

[  23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using
xhci_hcd [  29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error
-110 [  44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110
[  44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [  45.400311] usb
1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd [  56.240225]
usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [  56.368230] usb
1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd [  66.992306]
usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [  66.992363] usb
usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device

The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power drain
was exceeded by the USB device.

OK, is the external power supply you use the stock ettus one, or are you using something different?

  1. Our application prints:

Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device
Address:
num_recv_frames: 512

  1. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for instance
    run:  $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device

Workarounds that works:

  • Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same USB
    port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either, and
    one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the
    PC)

There's a high probability that means that some polyfuse has been triggered, in my experience. I've seen that in systems where there was no shared ground between USRP supply and PC, and the powering of either device caused a significant inrush current (I guess, couldn't measure back then).

  • Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210.

That's interesting; s700 really fully resets the USB controller, but I don't think the full board (would have to check).

  • Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot.

<-- that's the workaround I'd go for, see below.

Workarounds that haven't worked:

  • Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it off
    and then on (power cable off and on).

  • Try to programmatically remove power from USB device:

    lsusb
    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level
    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level
    lsusb
    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level
    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level
    lsusb

  • Try to remove the highspeed USB driver:

    lsusb
    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee
    /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind
    lsusb
    dmesg
    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind
    lsusb

  • Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device:

    lsusb
    lspci
    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/remove
    lsusb
    lspci
    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan
    lsusb
    lspci

Sad.

Workarounds that haven't been tried:

  • Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered.
  • Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the B210
    board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall installing a
    100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix.

If its really about current draws, best guess is that this would actually make it worse.

  • Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600)
    such that external power is always used and not disconnected before
    any USB communication. Any side effects ?

Voiding a warranty.

What you could try: If you have a spare USB cable, gently circumsize the plastic mantling in two places a couple cm apart, slice open the mantling, find the red cable inside and cut it.

That would remove the 5V powering from the host.
Haven't checked whether that works with the current firmware, though :(

Root cause:
We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and external
power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed
before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external B210
power is not attached.
Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is
attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather
fragile.
Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB is
attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is
removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to the
state it had when everything was powered on from scratch.

Hm, yeah, the LED behaviour of Q600 was erratic for multiple customers who had no other problems.

You don't happen to have an oscilloscope that you could attach to a couple of power test points on the B200, trigger on edge, and see whether this suspicion of yours works out to be right?

Best regards,
Marcus

Hi Marcus No detect = not in lsusb! The suspision is (more or less) confirmed: Experiment 1: -Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off -Turn on PC: Led off -Plug in USB cable: Led orange to indicate USB power -Device is in lsusb list (ie. everything is good just from USB power!) -Plug in external power: Led change to blue indicating external power -Unplug USB cable: Led stays blue Experiment 2: -Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off -Turn on PC: Led off -Plug in external power: Led off -Plug in USB cable: Led blue -Device is in lsusb list -Unplug USB cable: Led stays blue Experiment 3: -Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off -Turn on PC: Led off -Plug in external power: Led off -Plug in USB cable without power cord (cut as suggested): Led off -Unplug USB cable: Led off Inrush can not be the problem, cause everything is fine just coming up with USB power only, it though could be the switch-over to external power ?!?!? /thomas -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Müller <marcus.mueller@ettus.com> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2019 17.39 To: Thomas Fabricius <tf@chora.dk>; usrp-users@lists.ettus.com Subject: Re: [USRP-users] b210 USB detect problem Hi Thomas, let me quickly address a few of these issues On Tue, 2019-08-06 at 15:40 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users wrote: > Hi, > we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have equipment > where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system does not > come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to resolve the > problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the system. > Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before answering)… > > *PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance a > power break) I've seen that before on x86 industrial PCs. I think it might be a combination of overtasked on-board USB voltage supplies and USB host controller firmware. > *The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC. That means it's not in `lsusb`? > *The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached. > That at least rules out power supply problems. > *This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a single > PC type nor B210 device. Ok, good to know! > > Steps to reproduce: > 1. Remove all power from PC and B210. > 2. Insert USB into PC. > 3. Apply power to the devices. > 4. Start the PC. > 5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board. > 6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log: > > [ 23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using > xhci_hcd [ 29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error > -110 [ 44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110 > [ 44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [ 45.400311] usb > 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd [ 56.240225] > usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [ 56.368230] usb > 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd [ 66.992306] > usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [ 66.992363] usb > usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device > > The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power drain > was exceeded by the USB device. OK, is the external power supply you use the stock ettus one, or are you using something different? > > 7. Our application prints: > > Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device > Address: > num_recv_frames: 512 > > 8. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for instance > run: $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device > > Workarounds that works: > * Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same USB > port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either, and > one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the > PC) There's a high probability that means that some polyfuse has been triggered, in my experience. I've seen that in systems where there was no shared ground between USRP supply and PC, and the powering of either device caused a significant inrush current (I guess, couldn't measure back then). > > * Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210. That's interesting; s700 really fully resets the USB controller, but I don't think the full board (would have to check). > > * Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot. <-- that's the workaround I'd go for, see below. > > Workarounds that haven't worked: > * Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it off > and then on (power cable off and on). > > * Try to programmatically remove power from USB device: > > lsusb > echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level > echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level > lsusb > echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level > echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level > lsusb > > * Try to remove the highspeed USB driver: > > lsusb > echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee > /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind > lsusb > dmesg > echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind > lsusb > > * Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device: > > lsusb > lspci > echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/0000\:00\:14.0/remove > lsusb > lspci > echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan > lsusb > lspci > Sad. > Workarounds that haven't been tried: > * Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered. > * Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the B210 > board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall installing a > 100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix. If its really about current draws, best guess is that this would actually make it worse. > * Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600) > such that external power is always used and not disconnected before > any USB communication. Any side effects ? Voiding a warranty. What you could try: If you have a spare USB cable, gently circumsize the plastic mantling in two places a couple cm apart, slice open the mantling, find the red cable inside and cut it. That would remove the 5V powering from the host. Haven't checked whether that works with the current firmware, though :( > > Root cause: > We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and external > power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed > before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external B210 > power is not attached. > Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is > attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather > fragile. > Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB is > attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is > removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to the > state it had when everything was powered on from scratch. > Hm, yeah, the LED behaviour of Q600 was erratic for multiple customers who had no other problems. You don't happen to have an oscilloscope that you could attach to a couple of power test points on the B200, trigger on edge, and see whether this suspicion of yours works out to be right? Best regards, Marcus
TF
Thomas Fabricius
Tue, Aug 6, 2019 7:25 PM

Oh forgot to tell, we do use the Ettus supplied external power supply!
/thomas

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Müller marcus.mueller@ettus.com
Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2019 17.39
To: Thomas Fabricius tf@chora.dk; usrp-users@lists.ettus.com
Subject: Re: [USRP-users] b210 USB detect problem

Hi Thomas,

let me quickly address a few of these issues On Tue, 2019-08-06 at 15:40 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users
wrote:

Hi,
we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have equipment
where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system does not
come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to resolve the
problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the system.
Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before answering)…

*PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance a
power break)

I've seen that before on x86 industrial PCs. I think it might be a combination of overtasked on-board USB voltage supplies and USB host controller firmware.

*The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC.

That means it's not in lsusb?

*The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached.

That at least rules out power supply problems.

*This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a single
PC type nor B210 device.

Ok, good to know!

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Remove all power from PC and B210.
  2. Insert USB into PC.
  3. Apply power to the devices.
  4. Start the PC.
  5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board.
  6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log:

[  23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using
xhci_hcd [  29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error
-110 [  44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110
[  44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [  45.400311] usb
1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd [  56.240225]
usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [  56.368230] usb
1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd [  66.992306]
usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [  66.992363] usb
usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device

The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power drain
was exceeded by the USB device.

OK, is the external power supply you use the stock ettus one, or are you using something different?

  1. Our application prints:

Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device
Address:
num_recv_frames: 512

  1. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for instance
    run:  $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device

Workarounds that works:

  • Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same USB
    port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either, and
    one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the
    PC)

There's a high probability that means that some polyfuse has been triggered, in my experience. I've seen that in systems where there was no shared ground between USRP supply and PC, and the powering of either device caused a significant inrush current (I guess, couldn't measure back then).

  • Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210.

That's interesting; s700 really fully resets the USB controller, but I don't think the full board (would have to check).

  • Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot.

<-- that's the workaround I'd go for, see below.

Workarounds that haven't worked:

  • Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it off
    and then on (power cable off and on).

  • Try to programmatically remove power from USB device:

    lsusb
    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level
    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level
    lsusb
    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level
    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level
    lsusb

  • Try to remove the highspeed USB driver:

    lsusb
    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee
    /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind
    lsusb
    dmesg
    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind
    lsusb

  • Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device:

    lsusb
    lspci
    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/remove
    lsusb
    lspci
    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan
    lsusb
    lspci

Sad.

Workarounds that haven't been tried:

  • Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered.
  • Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the B210
    board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall installing a
    100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix.

If its really about current draws, best guess is that this would actually make it worse.

  • Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600)
    such that external power is always used and not disconnected before
    any USB communication. Any side effects ?

Voiding a warranty.

What you could try: If you have a spare USB cable, gently circumsize the plastic mantling in two places a couple cm apart, slice open the mantling, find the red cable inside and cut it.

That would remove the 5V powering from the host.
Haven't checked whether that works with the current firmware, though :(

Root cause:
We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and external
power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed
before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external B210
power is not attached.
Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is
attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather
fragile.
Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB is
attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is
removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to the
state it had when everything was powered on from scratch.

Hm, yeah, the LED behaviour of Q600 was erratic for multiple customers who had no other problems.

You don't happen to have an oscilloscope that you could attach to a couple of power test points on the B200, trigger on edge, and see whether this suspicion of yours works out to be right?

Best regards,
Marcus

Oh forgot to tell, we do use the Ettus supplied external power supply! /thomas -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Müller <marcus.mueller@ettus.com> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2019 17.39 To: Thomas Fabricius <tf@chora.dk>; usrp-users@lists.ettus.com Subject: Re: [USRP-users] b210 USB detect problem Hi Thomas, let me quickly address a few of these issues On Tue, 2019-08-06 at 15:40 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users wrote: > Hi, > we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have equipment > where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system does not > come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to resolve the > problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the system. > Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before answering)… > > *PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance a > power break) I've seen that before on x86 industrial PCs. I think it might be a combination of overtasked on-board USB voltage supplies and USB host controller firmware. > *The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC. That means it's not in `lsusb`? > *The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached. > That at least rules out power supply problems. > *This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a single > PC type nor B210 device. Ok, good to know! > > Steps to reproduce: > 1. Remove all power from PC and B210. > 2. Insert USB into PC. > 3. Apply power to the devices. > 4. Start the PC. > 5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board. > 6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log: > > [ 23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using > xhci_hcd [ 29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error > -110 [ 44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110 > [ 44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [ 45.400311] usb > 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd [ 56.240225] > usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [ 56.368230] usb > 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd [ 66.992306] > usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [ 66.992363] usb > usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device > > The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power drain > was exceeded by the USB device. OK, is the external power supply you use the stock ettus one, or are you using something different? > > 7. Our application prints: > > Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device > Address: > num_recv_frames: 512 > > 8. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for instance > run: $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device > > Workarounds that works: > * Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same USB > port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either, and > one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the > PC) There's a high probability that means that some polyfuse has been triggered, in my experience. I've seen that in systems where there was no shared ground between USRP supply and PC, and the powering of either device caused a significant inrush current (I guess, couldn't measure back then). > > * Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210. That's interesting; s700 really fully resets the USB controller, but I don't think the full board (would have to check). > > * Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot. <-- that's the workaround I'd go for, see below. > > Workarounds that haven't worked: > * Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it off > and then on (power cable off and on). > > * Try to programmatically remove power from USB device: > > lsusb > echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level > echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level > lsusb > echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level > echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level > lsusb > > * Try to remove the highspeed USB driver: > > lsusb > echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee > /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind > lsusb > dmesg > echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind > lsusb > > * Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device: > > lsusb > lspci > echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/0000\:00\:14.0/remove > lsusb > lspci > echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan > lsusb > lspci > Sad. > Workarounds that haven't been tried: > * Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered. > * Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the B210 > board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall installing a > 100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix. If its really about current draws, best guess is that this would actually make it worse. > * Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600) > such that external power is always used and not disconnected before > any USB communication. Any side effects ? Voiding a warranty. What you could try: If you have a spare USB cable, gently circumsize the plastic mantling in two places a couple cm apart, slice open the mantling, find the red cable inside and cut it. That would remove the 5V powering from the host. Haven't checked whether that works with the current firmware, though :( > > Root cause: > We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and external > power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed > before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external B210 > power is not attached. > Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is > attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather > fragile. > Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB is > attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is > removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to the > state it had when everything was powered on from scratch. > Hm, yeah, the LED behaviour of Q600 was erratic for multiple customers who had no other problems. You don't happen to have an oscilloscope that you could attach to a couple of power test points on the B200, trigger on edge, and see whether this suspicion of yours works out to be right? Best regards, Marcus
MM
Marcus Müller
Wed, Aug 7, 2019 12:16 AM

Hi Thomas,
The switching should be really smooth! Also, it shouldn't confuse
either USB end to stop working.
But since we're really debugging this by now, this would be reasonable
to check, yes. Do you happen to have an oscilloscope?

By the way, does the device work with the Vcc-cut USB cable and
external power? I've honestly never tried.

Best regards,
Marcus

On Tue, 2019-08-06 at 21:23 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users
wrote:

Hi Marcus

No detect = not in lsusb!

The suspision is (more or less) confirmed:
Experiment 1:
-Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off
-Turn on PC: Led off
-Plug in USB cable: Led orange to indicate USB power
-Device is in lsusb list (ie. everything is good just from USB
power!)
-Plug in external power: Led change to blue indicating external power
-Unplug USB cable: Led stays blue

Experiment 2:
-Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off
-Turn on PC: Led off
-Plug in external power: Led off
-Plug in USB cable: Led blue
-Device is in lsusb list
-Unplug USB cable: Led stays blue

Experiment 3:
-Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off
-Turn on PC: Led off
-Plug in external power: Led off
-Plug in USB cable without power cord (cut as suggested): Led off
-Unplug USB cable: Led off

Inrush can not be the problem, cause everything is fine just coming
up with USB power only, it though could be the switch-over to
external power ?!?!?

/thomas

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Müller marcus.mueller@ettus.com
Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2019 17.39
To: Thomas Fabricius tf@chora.dk; usrp-users@lists.ettus.com
Subject: Re: [USRP-users] b210 USB detect problem

Hi Thomas,

let me quickly address a few of these issues On Tue, 2019-08-06 at
15:40 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users
wrote:

Hi,
we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have
equipment
where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system does
not
come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to resolve
the
problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the system.
Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before
answering)…

*PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance
a
power break)

I've seen that before on x86 industrial PCs. I think it might be a
combination of overtasked on-board USB voltage supplies and USB host
controller firmware.

*The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC.

That means it's not in lsusb?

*The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached.

That at least rules out power supply problems.

*This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a
single
PC type nor B210 device.

Ok, good to know!

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Remove all power from PC and B210.
  2. Insert USB into PC.
  3. Apply power to the devices.
  4. Start the PC.
  5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board.
  6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log:

[  23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using
xhci_hcd [  29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error
-110 [  44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110
[  44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [  45.400311]
usb
1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd
[  56.240225]
usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [  56.368230]
usb
1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd
[  66.992306]
usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [  66.992363]
usb
usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device

The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power
drain
was exceeded by the USB device.

OK, is the external power supply you use the stock ettus one, or are
you using something different?

  1. Our application prints:

Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device
Address:
num_recv_frames: 512

  1. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for
    instance
    run:  $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device

Workarounds that works:

  • Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same
    USB
    port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either,
    and
    one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the
    PC)

There's a high probability that means that some polyfuse has been
triggered, in my experience. I've seen that in systems where there
was no shared ground between USRP supply and PC, and the powering of
either device caused a significant inrush current (I guess, couldn't
measure back then).

  • Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210.

That's interesting; s700 really fully resets the USB controller, but
I don't think the full board (would have to check).

  • Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot.

<-- that's the workaround I'd go for, see below.

Workarounds that haven't worked:

  • Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it
    off
    and then on (power cable off and on).

  • Try to programmatically remove power from USB device:

    lsusb
    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level
    echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level
    lsusb
    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level
    echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level
    lsusb

  • Try to remove the highspeed USB driver:

    lsusb
    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee
    /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind
    lsusb
    dmesg
    echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee
    /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind
    lsusb

  • Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device:

    lsusb
    lspci
    echo 1 | sudo tee
    /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/remove
    lsusb
    lspci
    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan
    lsusb
    lspci

Sad.

Workarounds that haven't been tried:

  • Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered.
  • Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the
    B210
    board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall
    installing a
    100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix.

If its really about current draws, best guess is that this would
actually make it worse.

  • Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600)
    such that external power is always used and not disconnected
    before
    any USB communication. Any side effects ?

Voiding a warranty.

What you could try: If you have a spare USB cable, gently circumsize
the plastic mantling in two places a couple cm apart, slice open the
mantling, find the red cable inside and cut it.

That would remove the 5V powering from the host.
Haven't checked whether that works with the current firmware, though
:(

Root cause:
We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and
external
power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed
before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external
B210
power is not attached.
Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is
attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather
fragile.
Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB
is
attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is
removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to
the
state it had when everything was powered on from scratch.

Hm, yeah, the LED behaviour of Q600 was erratic for multiple
customers who had no other problems.

You don't happen to have an oscilloscope that you could attach to a
couple of power test points on the B200, trigger on edge, and see
whether this suspicion of yours works out to be right?

Best regards,
Marcus

USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
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Hi Thomas, The switching **should** be really smooth! Also, it shouldn't confuse either USB end to stop working. But since we're really debugging this by now, this would be reasonable to check, yes. Do you happen to have an oscilloscope? By the way, does the device work with the Vcc-cut USB cable and external power? I've honestly never tried. Best regards, Marcus On Tue, 2019-08-06 at 21:23 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users wrote: > Hi Marcus > > No detect = not in lsusb! > > The suspision is (more or less) confirmed: > Experiment 1: > -Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off > -Turn on PC: Led off > -Plug in USB cable: Led orange to indicate USB power > -Device is in lsusb list (ie. everything is good just from USB > power!) > -Plug in external power: Led change to blue indicating external power > -Unplug USB cable: Led stays blue > > Experiment 2: > -Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off > -Turn on PC: Led off > -Plug in external power: Led off > -Plug in USB cable: Led blue > -Device is in lsusb list > -Unplug USB cable: Led stays blue > > Experiment 3: > -Starting from total power off and no USB cable: Led off > -Turn on PC: Led off > -Plug in external power: Led off > -Plug in USB cable without power cord (cut as suggested): Led off > -Unplug USB cable: Led off > > Inrush can not be the problem, cause everything is fine just coming > up with USB power only, it though could be the switch-over to > external power ?!?!? > > /thomas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marcus Müller <marcus.mueller@ettus.com> > Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2019 17.39 > To: Thomas Fabricius <tf@chora.dk>; usrp-users@lists.ettus.com > Subject: Re: [USRP-users] b210 USB detect problem > > Hi Thomas, > > let me quickly address a few of these issues On Tue, 2019-08-06 at > 15:40 +0200, Thomas Fabricius via USRP-users > wrote: > > Hi, > > we have a number b210s that has USB detect problems. We have > > equipment > > where the power can suddenly disappear, and then the system does > > not > > come up right and there is (yet) no programmatic way to resolve > > the > > problem, so we have to get in physical contact with the system. > > Any one who knows of a workaround (pls. read below before > > answering)… > > > > *PC cannot detect B210 USB device on cold boot (after for instance > > a > > power break) > > I've seen that before on x86 industrial PCs. I think it might be a > combination of overtasked on-board USB voltage supplies and USB host > controller firmware. > > > *The B210 USB device is simply not recognized by the PC. > > That means it's not in `lsusb`? > > > *The B210 has an attached GPSDO and external power attached. > > > > That at least rules out power supply problems. > > > *This happens on multiple systems and cannot be attributed to a > > single > > PC type nor B210 device. > > Ok, good to know! > > > > > Steps to reproduce: > > 1. Remove all power from PC and B210. > > 2. Insert USB into PC. > > 3. Apply power to the devices. > > 4. Start the PC. > > 5. The PC is after boot into linux to see the B210 board. > > 6. Errors are displayed in the dmesg kernel log: > > > > [ 23.884317] usb 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using > > xhci_hcd [ 29.024313] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error > > -110 [ 44.640330] usb 1-4: device descriptor read/64, error -110 > > [ 44.748356] usb usb1-port4: attempt power cycle [ 45.400311] > > usb > > 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd > > [ 56.240225] > > usb 1-4: device not accepting address 4, error -62 [ 56.368230] > > usb > > 1-4: new high-speed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd > > [ 66.992306] > > usb 1-4: device not accepting address 5, error -62 [ 66.992363] > > usb > > usb1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device > > > > The "device descriptor read/64, error -110" means that USB power > > drain > > was exceeded by the USB device. > > OK, is the external power supply you use the stock ettus one, or are > you using something different? > > > > > 7. Our application prints: > > > > Error: LookupError: KeyError: No devices found for -----> Device > > Address: > > num_recv_frames: 512 > > > > 8. The device is totally absent, so its not possible to for > > instance > > run: $UHD_INSTALL_PREFIX/utils/b2xx_fx3_utils --reset-device > > > > Workarounds that works: > > * Physically unplug the USB device and insert it again in the same > > USB > > port. (sometimes it though seems like this does not work either, > > and > > one need to switch to a new USB port on another USB HUB on the > > PC) > > There's a high probability that means that some polyfuse has been > triggered, in my experience. I've seen that in systems where there > was no shared ground between USRP supply and PC, and the powering of > either device caused a significant inrush current (I guess, couldn't > measure back then). > > > > > * Physically press the reset switch (S700) on the B210. > > That's interesting; s700 really fully resets the USB controller, but > I don't think the full board (would have to check). > > > > > * Remove external power supply from B210 before cold boot. > > <-- that's the workaround I'd go for, see below. > > > > > Workarounds that haven't worked: > > * Rebooting the PC, by software and/or by physically switching it > > off > > and then on (power cable off and on). > > > > * Try to programmatically remove power from USB device: > > > > lsusb > > echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level > > echo suspend > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level > > lsusb > > echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/power/level > > echo on > sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb2/power/level > > lsusb > > > > * Try to remove the highspeed USB driver: > > > > lsusb > > echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee > > /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/unbind > > lsusb > > dmesg > > echo "0000:00:14.0" | sudo tee > > /sys/bus/pci/drivers/xhci_hcd/bind > > lsusb > > > > * Remove and re-enumerate the USB controller PCI device: > > > > lsusb > > lspci > > echo 1 | sudo tee > > /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/0000\:00\:14.0/remove > > lsusb > > lspci > > echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/rescan > > lsusb > > lspci > > > Sad. > > > Workarounds that haven't been tried: > > * Use an USB3 hub that is externally powered. > > * Install a larger capacitor in parallel with C716/S700 on the > > B210 > > board to delay USB startup by the device. Somebody recall > > installing a > > 100uF capacitor. But this doesn’t seem like a root cause fix. > > If its really about current draws, best guess is that this would > actually make it worse. > > > * Circumvent power switching components (solder a short over Q600) > > such that external power is always used and not disconnected > > before > > any USB communication. Any side effects ? > > Voiding a warranty. > > What you could try: If you have a spare USB cable, gently circumsize > the plastic mantling in two places a couple cm apart, slice open the > mantling, find the red cable inside and cut it. > > That would remove the 5V powering from the host. > Haven't checked whether that works with the current firmware, though > :( > > > > > Root cause: > > We believe the root cause is the switching between USB and > > external > > power, in the LTC4412 U609 circuit. If external power is removed > > before cold boot, the device comes up correctly while external > > B210 > > power is not attached. > > Also worth noting, is that this may only happen when a GPSDO is > > attached. We haven't tried removing the GPSDO, since it is rather > > fragile. > > Another “malicious” behavior is when external power is on and USB > > is > > attached then Q600 will go on if it is not already on. When USB is > > removed Q600 will stay on, ie. the circuitry will not come back to > > the > > state it had when everything was powered on from scratch. > > > > Hm, yeah, the LED behaviour of Q600 was erratic for multiple > customers who had no other problems. > > You don't happen to have an oscilloscope that you could attach to a > couple of power test points on the B200, trigger on edge, and see > whether this suspicion of yours works out to be right? > > Best regards, > Marcus > > > > _______________________________________________ > USRP-users mailing list > USRP-users@lists.ettus.com > http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
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