Not speaking to any legal aspects. But a loop antenna will do the job. Something like 4 loops 20' by 20' in the basement or attic. Then a signal source and power amplifier. But the serious challenge is getting the loop to transmit anything at all. The efficiency is very bad at 60 KHz. There was a great thing called a chroneverter that works really well. No longer available unfortunately. It was very well thought out. A shame. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:16 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > The original idea was a transmitter with a 20m range. The “check > the regs” are aimed at that sort of setup. > > For something that is in contact with the clock or watch, indeed very > low power could be used. Normal coil based radiators would make > sense. It’s not clear just how practical wiring all that up with devices > scattered over an area with a diameter of 40 meters. > > Bob > > > On Jan 25, 2022, at 1:19 PM, Adrian Godwin <artgodwin@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Would a loop surrounding the watch (like an induction loop system for > > hearing aids) help keep the radiation lower ? > > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 6:14 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> It’s not clear that the regs in Australia would care about > >> doing this in an area not covered by this or that time signal. > >> I don’t know *what* they do or don’t say. My only concern > >> is that we all stay out of jail :) > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 12:21 PM, Lux, Jim <jim@luxfamily.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> On 1/25/22 7:52 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > >>>> Hi > >>>> > >>>> I would check the local rules and regs before you put money > >>>> into one of these gizmos. At least by the rules over here, this > >>>> sort of thing might get you in trouble. > >>> > >>> Setting a watch 30 cm away would require *very* low power > >>> > >>> At 20m, you'd probably be risking setting your neighbors' clocks > (unless > >> you live in the middle of a huge tract of deserted land, of which there > are > >> many in Australia) > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Bob > >>>> > >>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 5:29 AM, Anthony Dunne <agdunne@hotmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> G'day time nut friends > >>>>> > >>>>> I wonder if one of you could point me in the right direction on how > to > >> purchase (if one exists) a Time Signal Transmitter for use at the local > >> level (range 20m) for synchronising watches and radio clocks using the > >> various standard radio frequencies? > >>>>> > >>>>> And for the transmitter itself to receive / synchronise it's time > >> using NTP? > >>>>> > >>>>> I am in Australia and we are out of range for the normal > >> transmissions... > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Kind regards to you all > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Anthony Dunne > >>>>> > >>>>> Sydney, Australia > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > >> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > >> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > >> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send > >> an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.

Possibly something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHGAEhnsYk&list=PL3XBzmAj53RlkM2_xRq2NodFjFtBrgzx0&index=11&t=1s Ray On 2022-01-25 12:11, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > The original idea was a transmitter with a 20m range. The “check > the regs” are aimed at that sort of setup. > > For something that is in contact with the clock or watch, indeed very > low power could be used. Normal coil based radiators would make > sense. It’s not clear just how practical wiring all that up with > devices > scattered over an area with a diameter of 40 meters. > > Bob > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 1:19 PM, Adrian Godwin <artgodwin@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Would a loop surrounding the watch (like an induction loop system for >> hearing aids) help keep the radiation lower ? >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 6:14 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> It’s not clear that the regs in Australia would care about >>> doing this in an area not covered by this or that time signal. >>> I don’t know *what* they do or don’t say. My only concern >>> is that we all stay out of jail :) >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 12:21 PM, Lux, Jim <jim@luxfamily.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 1/25/22 7:52 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> I would check the local rules and regs before you put money >>>>> into one of these gizmos. At least by the rules over here, this >>>>> sort of thing might get you in trouble. >>>> >>>> Setting a watch 30 cm away would require *very* low power >>>> >>>> At 20m, you'd probably be risking setting your neighbors' clocks >>>> (unless >>> you live in the middle of a huge tract of deserted land, of which >>> there are >>> many in Australia) >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 5:29 AM, Anthony Dunne <agdunne@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> G'day time nut friends >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder if one of you could point me in the right direction on >>>>>> how to >>> purchase (if one exists) a Time Signal Transmitter for use at the >>> local >>> level (range 20m) for synchronising watches and radio clocks using >>> the >>> various standard radio frequencies? >>>>>> >>>>>> And for the transmitter itself to receive / synchronise it's time >>> using NTP? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am in Australia and we are out of range for the normal >>> transmissions... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards to you all >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Anthony Dunne >>>>>> >>>>>> Sydney, Australia >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To >>>>>> unsubscribe >>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To >>>>> unsubscribe >>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >>> send >>> an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.

Hi Anthony: For efficient transmission of radio signals the antenna should be at least 1/4 wavelength in size.  At 60 kHz a wavelength is 5,000 meters so a 1/4 wave is 1250 meters (4100 feet).  If the antenna is smaller than 1/4 wavelength the efficiency goes down.  So if you were to wrap a room/house with a coil of wire and with an impedance match drive it with a 60 kHz signal the signal would fall off very quickly. There's a license free band in the US between 160 and 170 kHz (1750 meters) where you are limited to a 50 foot antenna and one Watt input to the transmitter.  It's quite a challenge to be heard a hundred miles away.  Instead of the 37 Ohms antenna impedance of a 1/4 wave vertical you have an antenna resistance that's a thousand times smaller.  That means the effective radiated power is in the milliwatts. -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke, N6GCE https://www.PRC68.com axioms: 1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works. 2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs. -------- Original Message -------- > G'day time nut friends > > I wonder if one of you could point me in the right direction on how to purchase (if one exists) a Time Signal > Transmitter for use at the local level (range 20m) for synchronising watches and radio clocks using the various > standard radio frequencies? > > And for the transmitter itself to receive / synchronise it's time using NTP? > > I am in Australia and we are out of range for the normal transmissions... > > > Kind regards to you all > > > Anthony Dunne > > Sydney, Australia > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >

Hi Depending on the local rules and regs, (and a few details left out in the video) that setup might get you in trouble. You should be able to do this with micro-watts and good coupling. Bob > On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:37 PM, rcbuck@atcelectronics.com wrote: > > Possibly something like this? > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHGAEhnsYk&list=PL3XBzmAj53RlkM2_xRq2NodFjFtBrgzx0&index=11&t=1s > > Ray > > On 2022-01-25 12:11, Bob kb8tq wrote: >> Hi >> The original idea was a transmitter with a 20m range. The “check >> the regs” are aimed at that sort of setup. >> For something that is in contact with the clock or watch, indeed very >> low power could be used. Normal coil based radiators would make >> sense. It’s not clear just how practical wiring all that up with devices >> scattered over an area with a diameter of 40 meters. >> Bob >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 1:19 PM, Adrian Godwin <artgodwin@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Would a loop surrounding the watch (like an induction loop system for >>> hearing aids) help keep the radiation lower ? >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 6:14 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> It’s not clear that the regs in Australia would care about >>>> doing this in an area not covered by this or that time signal. >>>> I don’t know *what* they do or don’t say. My only concern >>>> is that we all stay out of jail :) >>>> Bob >>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 12:21 PM, Lux, Jim <jim@luxfamily.com> wrote: >>>>> On 1/25/22 7:52 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> I would check the local rules and regs before you put money >>>>>> into one of these gizmos. At least by the rules over here, this >>>>>> sort of thing might get you in trouble. >>>>> Setting a watch 30 cm away would require *very* low power >>>>> At 20m, you'd probably be risking setting your neighbors' clocks (unless >>>> you live in the middle of a huge tract of deserted land, of which there are >>>> many in Australia) >>>>>> Bob >>>>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 5:29 AM, Anthony Dunne <agdunne@hotmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> G'day time nut friends >>>>>>> I wonder if one of you could point me in the right direction on how to >>>> purchase (if one exists) a Time Signal Transmitter for use at the local >>>> level (range 20m) for synchronising watches and radio clocks using the >>>> various standard radio frequencies? >>>>>>> And for the transmitter itself to receive / synchronise it's time >>>> using NTP? >>>>>>> I am in Australia and we are out of range for the normal >>>> transmissions... >>>>>>> Kind regards to you all >>>>>>> Anthony Dunne >>>>>>> Sydney, Australia >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >>>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >>>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >>>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send >>>> an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.

Well fine comments as always and the loop mentioned with resonating cap produces if lucky 30 uv or so some 10 meters away. It does indeed work. The receiving antenna was the typical rod used in wwvb radios. For all the reasons stated its seriously hard to radiate at 60 KHz. Though all these crazy LED and CFL lights do a great job. But I don't want to waste anyone's time with various laws as I am not a Lawyer. Regards Paul On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:18 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > Depending on the local rules and regs, (and a few details > left out in the video) that setup might get you in trouble. > You should be able to do this with micro-watts and good > coupling. > > Bob > > > On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:37 PM, rcbuck@atcelectronics.com wrote: > > > > Possibly something like this? > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHGAEhnsYk&list=PL3XBzmAj53RlkM2_xRq2NodFjFtBrgzx0&index=11&t=1s > > > > Ray > > > > On 2022-01-25 12:11, Bob kb8tq wrote: > >> Hi > >> The original idea was a transmitter with a 20m range. The “check > >> the regs” are aimed at that sort of setup. > >> For something that is in contact with the clock or watch, indeed very > >> low power could be used. Normal coil based radiators would make > >> sense. It’s not clear just how practical wiring all that up with devices > >> scattered over an area with a diameter of 40 meters. > >> Bob > >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 1:19 PM, Adrian Godwin <artgodwin@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> Would a loop surrounding the watch (like an induction loop system for > >>> hearing aids) help keep the radiation lower ? > >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 6:14 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >>>> Hi > >>>> It’s not clear that the regs in Australia would care about > >>>> doing this in an area not covered by this or that time signal. > >>>> I don’t know *what* they do or don’t say. My only concern > >>>> is that we all stay out of jail :) > >>>> Bob > >>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 12:21 PM, Lux, Jim <jim@luxfamily.com> wrote: > >>>>> On 1/25/22 7:52 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > >>>>>> Hi > >>>>>> I would check the local rules and regs before you put money > >>>>>> into one of these gizmos. At least by the rules over here, this > >>>>>> sort of thing might get you in trouble. > >>>>> Setting a watch 30 cm away would require *very* low power > >>>>> At 20m, you'd probably be risking setting your neighbors' clocks > (unless > >>>> you live in the middle of a huge tract of deserted land, of which > there are > >>>> many in Australia) > >>>>>> Bob > >>>>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 5:29 AM, Anthony Dunne <agdunne@hotmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> G'day time nut friends > >>>>>>> I wonder if one of you could point me in the right direction on > how to > >>>> purchase (if one exists) a Time Signal Transmitter for use at the > local > >>>> level (range 20m) for synchronising watches and radio clocks using the > >>>> various standard radio frequencies? > >>>>>>> And for the transmitter itself to receive / synchronise it's time > >>>> using NTP? > >>>>>>> I am in Australia and we are out of range for the normal > >>>> transmissions... > >>>>>>> Kind regards to you all > >>>>>>> Anthony Dunne > >>>>>>> Sydney, Australia > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To > unsubscribe > >>>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To > unsubscribe > >>>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > >>>> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send > >>>> an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > >> send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.

> There was a discussion along these lines about using a RasberryPi or Arduino > for this purpose a while ago on this forum --- try searhing for "WWVB > Chronverter". I tried this: https://github.com/hzeller/txtempus/ Works pretty good at a short distance (< 10cm).