RE: TWL: windlass problem
I agree with Ray on everything he has stated here, except the use of the
starter battery for the windlass.
I do agree that the surge loading of a windlass might more closely mimic the
starter than the gradual draw of the preferred type of load for a deep-cycle
house bank. But I don't think the intermittent use of the windlass motor as
in hauling anchors, would create measurable impact on the longevity of a
PROPERLY SIZED house bank. House banks driving inverters that are used to
run microwaves and hair dryers experience a similar surge all the time.
I suppose, if the process of hauling anchor involves trying to dislodge a
stuck anchor with the windlass motor and creating a locked-rotor amperage
draw, a practice which is very damaging to all components and not to be
used, then the house bank could be damaged. But then so would the starter
battery.
I also suppose that, if Ray's suggestions included a statement that say's
"make sure your engines are running before you haul anchor" I might be more
comfortable with the idea of using the starter batteries. My big concern is
that I have observed several cases of hauling anchor on the starter
batteries pulling the starter batteries down to a condition where they will
not start the engines. Even where the engines are started, sometimes
throwing them into gear the first time in the morning will stall them again.
Now the anchor is up, the engine is stalled and you cannot restart the
engine.
I am of the opinion that the starter batteries should ONLY be used for
starting.
Joe Engel
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Chapman [mailto:rchapman@interconnect.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 9:22 AM
To: TWL
Subject: Re: TWL: windlass problem
<SNIP>
To wire the windlass, you will need to
bring a wire sized for no more than 5% voltage drop from your windlass to
your
ENGINE STARTING BATTERY, through a current protection device. There should
be no
connection of your windlass to your alternator. The reason I suggest most
small
craft connect the windlass to the engine starting battery is that if you
look at
the way (power curve) a windlass draws power from its source, it (the power
curve) is virtually the same as an engine's starter.
Joe Engel wrote:
I agree with Ray on everything he has stated here, except the use of the
starter battery for the windlass.
I suppose, if the process of hauling anchor involves trying to dislodge a
stuck anchor with the windlass motor and creating a locked-rotor amperage
draw, a practice which is very damaging to all components and not to be
used, then the house bank could be damaged. But then so would the starter
battery.
I also suppose that, if Ray's suggestions included a statement that say's
"make sure your engines are running before you haul anchor" I might be more
comfortable with the idea of using the starter batteries. My big concern is
that I have observed several cases of hauling anchor on the starter
batteries pulling the starter batteries down to a condition where they will
not start the engines.
NOT starting the engines before hauling anchor is right up there with untieing
the boat before starting the engines.
CCC
Charles C. Culotta Jr.
Patterson, LA
95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW
We have a LoFrans Tigress windlass. The first year we used the boat (new)
we ran the windlass with our engine at idle. At the start of the second
year, the windlass died. The brushes had to be replaced and the electrician
who did the job told us that the worst thing for a windlass motor was low
voltage. Since then, we have religiously started the genset prior to
windlass use and have had no further problems with the windlass. We also
operate the genset when using the electric dinghy davit, another high draw
item.
Mike wrote:
<We have a LoFrans Tigress windlass. The first year we used the boat (new)
we ran the windlass with our engine at idle. At the start of the second
year, the windlass died.>
G'day Mike, we have several hundred windlasses in our fleet. They are used
by neophytes and old salts alike. All our boats have a voltage sensitive
relay in the windlass hot line. If the voltage is not at 13v or above the
windlass won't run. Saves the motors and batteries. The Tigress will last
6-10 years in heavy charter service typically.
This system makes it a no brainer...run the engine at a fast idle to get the
voltage up or no windlass :-) Easy on the gear and easy on the mechanics :-)
Cheers
Dave
Swan Song
Roughwater 58
Tortola, BVI
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Cooper captdave@boats4u.com
This system makes it a no brainer...run the engine at a fast idle to get
the
voltage up or no windlass :-) Easy on the gear and easy on the mechanics
:-)
Hi Dave. Don't you run the risk of the neophytes tearing up the trannys by
shifting into gear at fast idle?
Mel Knott
A surveyor recommended to me to put a smaller(ish)
battery up in the front of the boat for just such a
situation. You could wire the windlass and the winch
into it and put on a trickle charger. Avoid a
spagehtti wiring from the batteries in the back, and
have a spare battery just in case.
Anyone care to comment or improve on this suggestion?
Dan
This system makes it a no brainer...run the engine
at a fast idle to get
the
voltage up or no windlass :-) Easy on the gear and
easy on the mechanics
:-)
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
You bring up a good point. I admit that I assumed dual starting batteries and
that the engine was started and running. I usually start my engine and let it
come up to temperature before getting underway. You are also correct in stating
that if the house bank is sized properly there should be no problems (the
operative words being 'sized correctly'). However, I have found that after
sitting at anchor for a couple of days my house bank is usually depleted to the
point that I really don't want to use them for an electric winch or windlass. I
think others might be in the same situation. If the house bank is depleted and
you use it to start the windless you risk damaging that battery bank. I would
rather risk my $100.00 worth of starting batteries than my $1000.00 house bank.
I also use 24 Volt as my DC ship's service. It lowers the amp draw and my wiring
and batteries don't have to work as hard. Having said this I guess I should also
say that I have not used an electric windlass on my boat in over 6 years. I went
hydraulic. I am now of the opinion that electric windlasses are not the best
solution on any vessel over 10 tons. At that size there is no practical reason
for not using hydraulics for deck work. Hydraulics are safer, longer lasting,
easier to repair and of similar cost, in the larger sizes its cheaper. For most
recreational users finding appropriate hydraulic gear may not be as easy as
finding electric gear but its well worth the effort. I have never seen anyone
switch back to electric winches/windlasses after trying hydraulic.
Joe Engel wrote:
I agree with Ray on everything he has stated here, except the use of the
starter battery for the windlass.
I am of the opinion that the starter batteries should ONLY be used for
starting.
Joe Engel
A 'smallish' battery won't last long in that kind of service and being
physically remote from most of the other electrical gear means its
usually not properly maintained. I don't think this is the way to go. If
your going to use a dedicated battery then do it right. Size a bank for
the maximum draw of the windlass and wire appropriately. I think you'll
find that by the time you pay for the batteries, wire, fuses and
switches, you could have properly wired the windlass back to your main
batteries for less. I'd also recommend going to 24 Volt service for
these types of large drain items.
Dan Symula wrote:
A surveyor recommended to me to put a smaller(ish)
battery up in the front of the boat for just such a
situation. You could wire the windlass and the winch
into it and put on a trickle charger. Avoid a
spagehtti wiring from the batteries in the back, and
have a spare battery just in case.
Anyone care to comment or improve on this suggestion?
Dan