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Northwest passage

S
Sven
Sun, Jun 1, 2008 10:48 PM

Is the Northwest passage really open ?  I know the ice coverage maps
shows the area north of Canada open during the summer months,  but
does that really mean that one could motor or sail from the Pacific
to the Atlantic above Canada ?

Assuming the answer is yes,  are the charts good enough to allow it
to be done with some confidence in being able to avoid running
aground due to chart errors  ?

-Sven

Is the Northwest passage really open ? I know the ice coverage maps shows the area north of Canada open during the summer months, but does that really mean that one could motor or sail from the Pacific to the Atlantic above Canada ? Assuming the answer is yes, are the charts good enough to allow it to be done with some confidence in being able to avoid running aground due to chart errors ? -Sven
JA
Jim Ague
Sun, Jun 1, 2008 11:35 PM

Is the Northwest passage really open ?  I know the ice coverage maps
shows the area north of Canada open during the summer months,  but
does that really mean that one could motor or sail from the Pacific
to the Atlantic above Canada ?

Check the Passagemaking Under Power archives in the 2006 timeframe,
http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/passagemaking-under-power/ or
http://www.idlewildexpedition.ca/

Some crazy Canadian rancher had a trawler built, went north on some river
from central Alberta, occasionally having to portage the trawler (it had
wheels) to somewhere above Alaska, went west to a certain longitude to allow
circumnavigation at the end, then headed east through th NW passage, down
along Greenland, around Cape Town Africa, Australia, then back up to
Vancouver, completing circumnavagation.

Yes it can be done, and a lot more.

-- Jim Ague

> Is the Northwest passage really open ? I know the ice coverage maps > shows the area north of Canada open during the summer months, but > does that really mean that one could motor or sail from the Pacific > to the Atlantic above Canada ? Check the Passagemaking Under Power archives in the 2006 timeframe, http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/passagemaking-under-power/ or http://www.idlewildexpedition.ca/ Some crazy Canadian rancher had a trawler built, went north on some river from central Alberta, occasionally having to portage the trawler (it had wheels) to somewhere above Alaska, went west to a certain longitude to allow circumnavigation at the end, then headed east through th NW passage, down along Greenland, around Cape Town Africa, Australia, then back up to Vancouver, completing circumnavagation. Yes it can be done, and a lot more. -- Jim Ague
SW
Skip Wangbickler
Fri, Jun 13, 2008 3:44 AM

Sven

Yes it can be done in fact a friend is doing it this summer in a 47ft
trawler.  If you want to communicate with him - his e-mail is above.

Skip Wangbickler
M/V Emerald Sea
Sausalito, CA
Skype: skip.wangbickler
swangbickler@comcast.net

-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Sven
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:48 PM
To: TT
Subject: T&T: Northwest passage

Is the Northwest passage really open ?  I know the ice coverage maps
shows the area north of Canada open during the summer months,  but
does that really mean that one could motor or sail from the Pacific
to the Atlantic above Canada ?

Assuming the answer is yes,  are the charts good enough to allow it
to be done with some confidence in being able to avoid running
aground due to chart errors  ?

-Sven


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Sven Yes it can be done in fact a friend is doing it this summer in a 47ft trawler. If you want to communicate with him - his e-mail is above. Skip Wangbickler M/V Emerald Sea Sausalito, CA Skype: skip.wangbickler swangbickler@comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com [mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Sven Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:48 PM To: TT Subject: T&T: Northwest passage Is the Northwest passage really open ? I know the ice coverage maps shows the area north of Canada open during the summer months, but does that really mean that one could motor or sail from the Pacific to the Atlantic above Canada ? Assuming the answer is yes, are the charts good enough to allow it to be done with some confidence in being able to avoid running aground due to chart errors ? -Sven _______________________________________________ http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/trawlers-and-trawlering Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.
AJ
Arild Jensen
Fri, Jun 13, 2008 4:06 PM

Sven's request about sailing conditions for the North West passage got me
curious.
a Google search quickly found several commercial tour companies that offered
cruises in the far north. This is in addition to the private yachts that
have made the passage.

There is also a Russian Ice breaker that routinely makes tourist type
cruises in the arctic ocean.
All in all there is a lot of activity snd th eCanadian Coast Guard is
actively  trying to increase their facilities and patrol craft up there.
Somehow I doubt it will ever be as crowded as southern waters.

At least you will not find irate shore line property owners demanding you
stop anchoring and spoiling their view.

regards
Arild

Sven's request about sailing conditions for the North West passage got me curious. a Google search quickly found several commercial tour companies that offered cruises in the far north. This is in addition to the private yachts that have made the passage. There is also a Russian Ice breaker that routinely makes tourist type cruises in the arctic ocean. All in all there is a lot of activity snd th eCanadian Coast Guard is actively trying to increase their facilities and patrol craft up there. Somehow I doubt it will ever be as crowded as southern waters. At least you will not find irate shore line property owners demanding you stop anchoring and spoiling their view. regards Arild
SH
Scott H.E. Welch
Fri, Jun 13, 2008 8:26 PM

Sven writes:

Is the Northwest passage really open ?  I know the ice coverage maps
shows the area north of Canada open during the summer months,  but
does that really mean that one could motor or sail from the Pacific
to the Atlantic above Canada ?

Assuming the answer is yes,  are the charts good enough to allow it
to be done with some confidence in being able to avoid running
aground due to chart errors  ?

I have some experience with this, as I worked on a boat in the arctic for 7
years. My parents have both been through the passage in both directions on
larger boats (icebreakers), and have 30+ years of boating experience on
Lancaster Sound, the part of the passage near Resolute Bay. They regularly
traveled up to 250 miles in a 24 foot aluminum workboat.

"Open" is a relative term. While certain parts of the passage may be ice-free
at certain times, you cannot guarantee that a wind or weather change will not
bring a crushing pack of ice in on you. In particular, there are certain very
narrow passes (e.g. Bellot Straight) which are particularly dangerous. This
pack ice can be pushed in at any time at all. "Summer" in the high arctic is
late July through early September, and during that time you can still expect
snow. The good news is that if it's warm enough for boating, it's also light
24 hours a day (I still find boating in the dark pretty freaky, I'd never
done it once in the 7 years I worked in the arctic).

I myself would love to take a boat through, in fact I've even though about
taking Island Eagle through, but in my opinion you would have to understand
the following facts:

  1. The boat would have to be disposable. If you are not prepared to risk
    everything, don't start. It should also be very strong, with steel being the
    optimal choice.

  2. You have to be really, really self-sufficient. Between Alaska and
    Newfoundland there are exactly zero boatyards. Haulout will be with a Cat up
    a gravel beach. There is no cell service. There are no Coast Guard stations.
    There are no roads. There are no hospitals. There is basically a lot of empty
    land (and by "a lot" I mean "an area the size of all of Europe").

  3. While there are communities, they are very, very small. A few hundred
    people, and the stores are sort of cross between a 7-11 and an old-style
    general store. All fresh food comes in by air, so expect to pay dearly. Each
    community has a "nursing station" with one or two nurses.

  4. Fuel is available but typically about double the price of whatever you
    would pay "down south". It will be delivered to the beach in 45 gallon drums.

From there it's your problem.

  1. The cost of dealing with any emergency is high. Flights to Resolute (the
    easiest place on the passage to reach) are roughly $5000 return (Yes, $5000,
    that is not a typo). Couriers are nonexistent. Dealers for any type of
    equipment are nonexistent. Marinas and docks are nonexistent. If you need to
    fly out to your boat from one of the communities expect to pay at least
    $500/hr for a charter.

  2. As Mike pointed out, you are close to the magnetic north pole. Trust me
    when I tell you, magnetic compasses just spin in circles. You'll need a
    gyrocompass for any autopilot. Also, the charts are a bit sketchy, where they
    exist. The rest of the time, you are on your own. Google Earth will be a big
    help. In my day, we didn't even have GPS. That was fun.

On the flip side, it's absolutely beautiful and as wild as it gets. The
people are incredible. It will be a unique experience.

If you want to learn more, I would suggest the following books:

"North-West Passage" by Willi De Roos. Willi took a sailboat through in the
mid-70s, singlehanded (!!), in a single year (!!!!). A great read.
http://tinyurl.com/6yqd6x

"High Latitude, North Atlantic" by John Bockstoce. Many parts to this book,
but John took his boat Belvedere (a steel motorsailer built by Sutton in
California) through the North-West Passage in the early 80s. An excellent
read, highly recommended. By the way he also went through in a 24 foot skin
umiaq when he was younger. Not for the faint of heart.
http://tinyurl.com/6ayjyf and http://tinyurl.com/67fz5y

"Arctic Odyssey: Dove III Masters the Northwest Passage" by Len Sherman.
Three guys from Nanaimo took a 27 foot steel sailboat through in about 1995.
One of the guys keeps his new boat just a few slips down from Island Eagle. A
good read. http://tinyurl.com/5gwkdu

"Northwest Passage Solo" by David Scott Cowper. The best of the best. David
Cowper was the first person to solo circumnavigate in a powerboat. He then
went around again, but through the Northwest Passage. A really good book.
Very highly recommended. http://tinyurl.com/5heltu

Finally, for all of those folks who think that the ice is not melting: I'm
sorry to report that the scientific evidence is against you. My father's day
job was as an arctic biologist, and he and his colleagues have been tracking
arctic ice thickness and cover since the mid-sixties. It appears that both
cover and thickness show a steady decline. Variations in individual years are
well within statistical expectations, but the trend is clear. Something to
think about: ice is an almost perfect reflector of solar radiation. Water is
almost a perfect absorber. When that ice melts, and the water warms up, the
change in global weather patterns is likely to make El Nino look like an
afternoon shower.

Scott Welch
FirstClass Product Manager
www.firstclass.com

Those who make no mistakes rarely make anything.

Sven writes: >Is the Northwest passage really open ? I know the ice coverage maps >shows the area north of Canada open during the summer months, but >does that really mean that one could motor or sail from the Pacific >to the Atlantic above Canada ? > >Assuming the answer is yes, are the charts good enough to allow it >to be done with some confidence in being able to avoid running >aground due to chart errors ? I have some experience with this, as I worked on a boat in the arctic for 7 years. My parents have both been through the passage in both directions on larger boats (icebreakers), and have 30+ years of boating experience on Lancaster Sound, the part of the passage near Resolute Bay. They regularly traveled up to 250 miles in a 24 foot aluminum workboat. "Open" is a relative term. While certain parts of the passage may be ice-free at certain times, you cannot guarantee that a wind or weather change will not bring a crushing pack of ice in on you. In particular, there are certain very narrow passes (e.g. Bellot Straight) which are particularly dangerous. This pack ice can be pushed in at any time at all. "Summer" in the high arctic is late July through early September, and during that time you can still expect snow. The good news is that if it's warm enough for boating, it's also light 24 hours a day (I still find boating in the dark pretty freaky, I'd never done it once in the 7 years I worked in the arctic). I myself would love to take a boat through, in fact I've even though about taking Island Eagle through, but in my opinion you would have to understand the following facts: 1) The boat would have to be disposable. If you are not prepared to risk everything, don't start. It should also be very strong, with steel being the optimal choice. 2) You have to be really, really self-sufficient. Between Alaska and Newfoundland there are exactly zero boatyards. Haulout will be with a Cat up a gravel beach. There is no cell service. There are no Coast Guard stations. There are no roads. There are no hospitals. There is basically a lot of empty land (and by "a lot" I mean "an area the size of all of Europe"). 3) While there are communities, they are very, very small. A few hundred people, and the stores are sort of cross between a 7-11 and an old-style general store. All fresh food comes in by air, so expect to pay dearly. Each community has a "nursing station" with one or two nurses. 4) Fuel is available but typically about double the price of whatever you would pay "down south". It will be delivered to the beach in 45 gallon drums. >From there it's your problem. 5) The cost of dealing with any emergency is high. Flights to Resolute (the easiest place on the passage to reach) are roughly $5000 return (Yes, $5000, that is not a typo). Couriers are nonexistent. Dealers for any type of equipment are nonexistent. Marinas and docks are nonexistent. If you need to fly out to your boat from one of the communities expect to pay at least $500/hr for a charter. 6) As Mike pointed out, you are close to the magnetic north pole. Trust me when I tell you, magnetic compasses just spin in circles. You'll need a gyrocompass for any autopilot. Also, the charts are a bit sketchy, where they exist. The rest of the time, you are on your own. Google Earth will be a big help. In my day, we didn't even have GPS. That was fun. On the flip side, it's absolutely beautiful and as wild as it gets. The people are incredible. It will be a unique experience. If you want to learn more, I would suggest the following books: "North-West Passage" by Willi De Roos. Willi took a sailboat through in the mid-70s, singlehanded (!!), in a single year (!!!!). A great read. http://tinyurl.com/6yqd6x "High Latitude, North Atlantic" by John Bockstoce. Many parts to this book, but John took his boat Belvedere (a steel motorsailer built by Sutton in California) through the North-West Passage in the early 80s. An excellent read, highly recommended. By the way he also went through in a 24 foot skin umiaq when he was younger. Not for the faint of heart. http://tinyurl.com/6ayjyf and http://tinyurl.com/67fz5y "Arctic Odyssey: Dove III Masters the Northwest Passage" by Len Sherman. Three guys from Nanaimo took a 27 foot steel sailboat through in about 1995. One of the guys keeps his new boat just a few slips down from Island Eagle. A good read. http://tinyurl.com/5gwkdu "Northwest Passage Solo" by David Scott Cowper. The best of the best. David Cowper was the first person to solo circumnavigate in a powerboat. He then went around again, but through the Northwest Passage. A really good book. Very highly recommended. http://tinyurl.com/5heltu Finally, for all of those folks who think that the ice is not melting: I'm sorry to report that the scientific evidence is against you. My father's day job was as an arctic biologist, and he and his colleagues have been tracking arctic ice thickness and cover since the mid-sixties. It appears that both cover and thickness show a steady decline. Variations in individual years are well within statistical expectations, but the trend is clear. Something to think about: ice is an almost perfect reflector of solar radiation. Water is almost a perfect absorber. When that ice melts, and the water warms up, the change in global weather patterns is likely to make El Nino look like an afternoon shower. Scott Welch FirstClass Product Manager www.firstclass.com Those who make no mistakes rarely make anything.
S
Sven
Sat, Jun 14, 2008 5:16 PM

On Jun 13, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Scott H.E. Welch wrote:

I have some experience with this, as I worked on a boat in the
arctic for 7
years.

Thanks for this and all the other answers.

A few times I've flown over the area when there was no cloud cover
and the starkness and emptiness was awesome,  even from 30,000 feet.

Very alluring.

-Sven

On Jun 13, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Scott H.E. Welch wrote: > I have some experience with this, as I worked on a boat in the > arctic for 7 > years. Thanks for this and all the other answers. A few times I've flown over the area when there was no cloud cover and the starkness and emptiness was awesome, even from 30,000 feet. Very alluring. -Sven