Mark my words, it will be down to who has the deepest pockets, and the best
representation from the lobyist's, in how this goes. The congress is
ignorant to technical issues, and they will force the FCC to follow along.
It will go down that it was "for the greater good", or something similar.

Boeing pulled something similar to this, by building a plant in S.C., for
the 787, in order to get even with the union, as it was proven, and the
NLRB ruled against them, but right now, over the money invested, Congress
is about to step in over the NLRB ruling, for the union, and this type of
thing happens all the time. Build it up first, and force them to use it, or
force it through, over the large sums of money already invested.

Best,

Will

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/30/2011 at 6:32 PM Rob Kimberley wrote:

o

s

r

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

signature database 5851 (20110206) __________

Seems to me such an issue only increases the chance of Lightsquared's

whacked-out ideas getting shot down in flames (as they should be).

May their marketer-driven hype rest in peace(es).

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 30-Jun-11 at 18:32 Rob Kimberley wrote:

leo

Des

e-r

The NLRB / Boeing decision was an obscenity. If it stands, Boeing will
move offshore in due time.

YMMV,

-John

=============

They already did, some time ago, at least for much of their engineering.

I spent six years with them (and I'm told I did good to last that long),
so I speak from (bitter) experience.

--They used to make much of their own avionics for flight controls and

instrumentation. No more. They sold off their entire electronics division
to British Aerospace back around 2000.

--They used to make their own PC boards. Nope. Got dumped around the

same time.

--Wing engineering and design has been done in Russia since around 1999,

at least.

There are probably stacks of other examples which I've either missed or

don't know about, but I will say this much: I think their ultimate plans
have always been to move the rest of manufacturing offshore. The NLRB
thing is merely one symptom of a much larger disease, one which started
(no surprise) just about the same time as McDonnell-Douglas bought Boeing
with Boeing's money.

I was laid off at the end of 2002, along with a stack of other folks.

Honestly, I have NO regrets.

I'll let it go at this since this is, obviously, off-topic for TimeNuts.

Happy clocking.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 30-Jun-11 at 10:50 J. Forster wrote:

similar.

for

the

Congress

of

it,

lile

S-De

-be-

The exception to this rule is the Yucca Mountain Projects. Billions spent and it has been mothballed. The GOP wanted to conduct a tour of the facility and were presented with a bill just to turn on the lights (so to speak). They couldn't even fund the tour.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Will Matney" xformer@citynet.net
Sender: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:45:32
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: xformer@citynet.net,
Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...

Mark my words, it will be down to who has the deepest pockets, and the best
representation from the lobyist's, in how this goes. The congress is
ignorant to technical issues, and they will force the FCC to follow along.
It will go down that it was "for the greater good", or something similar.

Boeing pulled something similar to this, by building a plant in S.C., for
the 787, in order to get even with the union, as it was proven, and the
NLRB ruled against them, but right now, over the money invested, Congress
is about to step in over the NLRB ruling, for the union, and this type of
thing happens all the time. Build it up first, and force them to use it, or
force it through, over the large sums of money already invested.

Best,

Will

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/30/2011 at 6:32 PM Rob Kimberley wrote:

o

s

r

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

signature database 5851 (20110206) __________

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Scratching the ole head. "TVs a waste"? A comment on the editorial content
perhaps?
But then how does any of that really have anything to do with Time-nuts.
Regards
Paul.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:42 PM, lists@lazygranch.com wrote:

Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is allotted. Spectrum has been whittled away at least twice. Once to create T-band. Again a little bit when HDTV was rolled out. The band needs to be trimmed with a sawzall.

-----Original Message-----
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:09:06
To: lists@lazygranch.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...

Scratching the ole head. "TVs a waste"? A comment on the editorial content
perhaps?
But then how does any of that really have anything to do with Time-nuts.
Regards
Paul.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:42 PM, lists@lazygranch.com wrote:

Might be worth a read of some of Charlie Rhodes'  columns at TV Technology. The
latest is "Can Terrestrial Broadcasting and GPS Co-exist in Adjoining Spectrum?"
and is at http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/122176

Over the years Charlie has presented what seems IMHO to be valid reasons why TV
white spaces - aka guardbands - exist and that terrestrial TV needs them. Same
applies for GPS and LS. I'd at least agree that the need for white spaces is one
main reason why "Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is
allotted". Of course, my meaning of "use" here is that of "occupy". I think Mr.
Rhodes would contend even un-occupied spectrum is in use...

Bob LaJeunesse

From: "lists@lazygranch.com" lists@lazygranch.com
To: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 3:45:10 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...

Terrestrial TV simply cannot use all the bandwidth it is allotted. Spectrum has
been whittled away at least twice. Once to create T-band. Again a little bit
when HDTV was rolled out. The band needs to be trimmed with a sawzall.

-----Original Message-----
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:09:06
To: lists@lazygranch.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...

Scratching the ole head. "TVs a waste"? A comment on the editorial content
perhaps?
But then how does any of that really have anything to do with Time-nuts.
Regards
Paul.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:42 PM, lists@lazygranch.com wrote:

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Probably because it was UPS, and it was the successful removal of the
220MHz ham band from the hams.  As far as I know, the band is still unused.

They found it was more cost effective to use the cell phone network.

-Chuck Harris

David VanHorn wrote:

Nope, it wasn't the UPS plan either, and that did take a chunk of 220.

From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris [cfharris@erols.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:03 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...

Probably because it was UPS, and it was the successful removal of the
220MHz ham band from the hams.  As far as I know, the band is still unused.

They found it was more cost effective to use the cell phone network.

-Chuck Harris

David VanHorn wrote:

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Half the band, anyway (220-222). And no, they never did make any use of

it I know of.

There are still quite a few repeaters and experimental modes being used

on the portion remaining to hamateurs (222-225).

Keep the peace(es).

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 30-Jun-11 at 17:03 Chuck Harris wrote:

unused.

Here's one thing that's fixing to happen, if any interference is allowed to
take place. All the large companies like Cat and Deere have been including
GPS guidance for the operators for a good while now. Most of your surveyers
now use GPS in about everything they do. If they are forced to go back to
the old ways of surveying, can you imagine the hold-up's, in the large
construction projects within our infrastructure, that this will cause? All
of those hold-up's equal over runs on time, which means huge amounts of
state and federal dollars having to be added to complate these projects.
They use GPS in graders and dozers to aquire any grade angle that the specs
call for, on top of where it supposed to be. The surveyers use it almost
strictly now to do any of their work. I can also see it adding years to
projects that is now underway, and I wonder if they have thought of any of
this? Surely Deere, Cat, and most likely Trimble, have tried to explain
this to the idiots in Washington?

Best,

Will

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/30/2011 at 1:00 PM Robert LaJeunesse wrote:

Technology. The

Spectrum?"

why TV

them. Same

spaces is one

think Mr.

frequency

Spectrum has

bit

use

use

I

Of

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

signature database 5851 (20110206) __________

If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast media in
the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges.

It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population.

-John

=================

Yes, but people are awfully dumb!  They have no idea what you are talking
about.  They buy Kindles and watch movies on screens less than 60 inch
diagonal measurement using sound systems that produce nothing but noise.
They don't buy newspapers and never give a thought to the fact that unless
their information is printed, it can be changed at will to suit any need
required by people who are smarter than they are.  We won't even mention
what they do in the privacy of the voting booth!  And I weep when I see
those photos of great people who give their lives so that I can continue to
live as I want.  And, no, I didn't lose a cent during this latest economic
madness which I'm sure is promoted by those who measure time in pips..

Lee Mushel
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Forster" jfor@quik.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 03:29:49PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:

Broadcast TV will never go away... far too important to the

political class as a place for political ads and local news about the
local congresscritters.

But you forget satellite DTH TV.... Dish and DirecTV have tens

of millions of subs now... it's not just Verizon and Comcast.

Pay cable content seems to be succeeding in the marketplace

despite its higher price to consumers... and the continuing presence of
"free" broadcast TV.

And more and more of the quality content is there and only there

(and on the Internet for pay too).

--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."

IMHO, it's the new age of the robber barons. Paying for content is one
thing, paying a government granted monopoly for use of the transmission
medium is another.  There is no effective competition if the bandwidth
is sold to the highest bidder, locking out competition. Comparable to
the great land giveaways to implement the transcontinental railways.
Don

David I. Emery

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

And when do you think the old age of the robber barons ended?
Steve

On 1 July 2011 18:05, Don Latham djl@montana.com wrote:

--
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.

• Einstein

There are really no different than cable or FIOS.

-John

===============