Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material
I guess I wasn't too clear; it was the bare devices we were trying to destroy; the VIC20 was just used for testing.
The largest discharge we got was from an acrylic rod and the cat.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles P. Steinmetz" charles_steinmetz@lavabit.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:04:11 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material
Dave wrote:
Back about 1981, we had piles of 6502s, etc and decide to some
"antistatic testing". We put a 40pin ZIF socket into a VIC-20, and
then set about trying to fry the uP using carpet, a cat, car seats,
etc. The DUT was then put back into the VIC and series of tests run
to verify operation. I don't think we ever had a failure. Of course,
there may have been some hiding that we missed, but all the static
damage I've seen has been pretty severe.
That said, I always use a wrist strap and mat if I'm working on
something I don't want to break further.
Installed components are generally much less vulnerable to ESD than
bare parts, because there are leakage paths (both intentional and
otherwise) on a circuit board that allow the ESD to flow around the
component rather than through it. With a naked part, any ESD to one
of its leads has to flow through its other leads or the case of the
device, thereby maximizing any damage.
Best regards,
Charles
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In message <1548123648.14120691264567016061.JavaMail.root@sz0108a.emeryville.ca
.mail.comcast.net>, d.seiter@comcast.net writes:
I guess I wasn't too clear; it was the bare devices we were trying to destroy; the VIC20 was just used for testing.
The 6502 was a very robust device manufactured in NMOS technology.
The original target market was motorolas very lucrative military/space
6800 market, so the chip had to match or exceed the 6800 on all points,
including accidental damage.
The first version, the 6501 was in fact pin- but not instruction-compatible
with 6800, but Motorola had a legal fit and MOS gave up on that idea.
The fact that 6502 mainly ended up in Commodore computers was mainly
a matter of its lower price. Later the crash in microprocessor prices
saddled Jack Tramiel with a huge overpriced inventory which made him
outright buy MOS to avoid a repeat performance of that problem.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Atari used them by the truckload too, and again, probably due to price. I'm sure somebody is probably still producing them, or can. It was a very durable item; once, on a lark, we took one that had been run over by a truck and sat out in the weather for who knows how long, bent the pins enough to solder it to a 40pin header and tried it out in a CBM 8032....it worked...
I kind of wish I had been working back then when stuff was so robust.... Now we have poly Ta caps that have a real shelf life that's not MSL related.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" phk@phk.freebsd.dk
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:03:54 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material
In message <1548123648.14120691264567016061.JavaMail.root@sz0108a.emeryville.ca
.mail.comcast.net>, d.seiter@comcast.net writes:
I guess I wasn't too clear; it was the bare devices we were trying to destroy; the VIC20 was just used for testing.
The 6502 was a very robust device manufactured in NMOS technology.
The original target market was motorolas very lucrative military/space
6800 market, so the chip had to match or exceed the 6800 on all points,
including accidental damage.
The first version, the 6501 was in fact pin- but not instruction-compatible
with 6800, but Motorola had a legal fit and MOS gave up on that idea.
The fact that 6502 mainly ended up in Commodore computers was mainly
a matter of its lower price. Later the crash in microprocessor prices
saddled Jack Tramiel with a huge overpriced inventory which made him
outright buy MOS to avoid a repeat performance of that problem.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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d.seiter@comcast.net said:
The largest discharge we got was from an acrylic rod and the cat.
Clean dry wool works nicely. (I give all my old wool hiking socks to a
friend who teaches physics to high school physics teachers.)
I think the other key ingredient is Styrofoam. You can get good chunks as
"paper" plates or fast-food containers.
http://www.exo.net/~pauld/summer_institute/summer_day14electrostatic/Electroph
orus.html
http://www.exploratorium.edu/science_explorer/sparker.html
bill@iaxs.net said:
My first job was in a blasting cap plant in 1960. There were military
devices so sensitive they could be set off by turning on a nearby
fluorescent desk lamp.
Fond memories...
In 1960, I was in high school. A couple of classrooms had new chairs with a
plastic seat and a steel frame. They were great for generating static. I
had shoes that were good insulators. I could charge up on one of the chairs
and walk down the hall to the lockers and still give somebody a serious zap.
The chairs had 4 big round-headed bolts that went through the seat to hold it
to the frame. As the typical male was sitting down, a certain sensitive part
of their anatomy was closest to the bolt. We learned quickly. I got very
good at hitting a leg of the chair with my foot/ankle as I was sitting down.
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
The largest discharge we got was from an acrylic rod and the cat.
Speaking of cats...one of mine has learned that he can rub across the
blanket on the bed and build up quite a charge.
In the middle of the night, if one of the other cats is in 'his
spot', it is not uncommon to find him rubbing vigorously, then going
over to that cat and lightly tapping him on the butt, dumping his
charge with a brilliant spark...and a very startled leap from the
sleeping one.
Why hiss and pounce and wrestle when you have electricity at your whim?
Tom Frank, KA2CDK
P.S. - while thus far he hasn't tried that on us, we have added a
humidifier to the room, just in case.
Now that's one smart cat.
Regards.
Max. K 4 O D S.
Email: max@maxsmusicplace.com
Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
funwithtransistors-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas A. Frank" ka2cdk@cox.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material - OT
The largest discharge we got was from an acrylic rod and the cat.
Speaking of cats...one of mine has learned that he can rub across the
blanket on the bed and build up quite a charge.
In the middle of the night, if one of the other cats is in 'his
spot', it is not uncommon to find him rubbing vigorously, then going
over to that cat and lightly tapping him on the butt, dumping his
charge with a brilliant spark...and a very startled leap from the
sleeping one.
Why hiss and pounce and wrestle when you have electricity at your whim?
Tom Frank, KA2CDK
P.S. - while thus far he hasn't tried that on us, we have added a
humidifier to the room, just in case.
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No virus found in this incoming message.
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19:36:00
Please don't let you cat talk to mine!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas A. Frank" ka2cdk@cox.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:56:10 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material - OT
The largest discharge we got was from an acrylic rod and the cat.
Speaking of cats...one of mine has learned that he can rub across the
blanket on the bed and build up quite a charge.
In the middle of the night, if one of the other cats is in 'his
spot', it is not uncommon to find him rubbing vigorously, then going
over to that cat and lightly tapping him on the butt, dumping his
charge with a brilliant spark...and a very startled leap from the
sleeping one.
Why hiss and pounce and wrestle when you have electricity at your whim?
Tom Frank, KA2CDK
P.S. - while thus far he hasn't tried that on us, we have added a
humidifier to the room, just in case.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.