Empathy List Archives

TK

Tom Knox

Thu, Jan 23, 2025 12:06 AM

Hi All,
I am sure most Time-Nuts have owned or are at least familiar with one of the many flavors of Lucent/AT&T RTFG and RFG frequency standards.
What is frustrating is the main output ids 15MHz.
Recently I decided to see how hard it would be to convert the 15MHz 23dB output to a 10MHz 23dB output.
And I think I have found a really elegantly way to accomplish this by removing one filter and adding several jumpers.
Once I have fully tested and documented this mod, I will post it for anyone interested.
Time-Nut are welcome to contact me for a few current protos of the mod and share their insights.

Related to this I have two questions:

One product I have converted to a 10MHz output is a Lucent RFG-XO which does not have GPS and is basically a disciplined ovenized quartz oscillator. But in experiments simply Appling an external 10MHz does nothing but connecting the interface cable to the matching RFG-RB it quickly locks.
Apparently it was designed not to discipline the XO until the matching RB Locked.
My guess is one pins on the interface switches low to enable the PLL.
Does anyone know the pinout?

One thing I would currently find very use full is the Lucent Diagnostic Software, Does anyone have a copy? And can any version be run on a modern windows computer?

Also, over the years I have seen some great posts about these, and it would be nice to find a place to combine and post all the past, current, and future information on mod and upgraded related to these.. For example, I know there were a number of Time-Nut posts on the Synergy UBLOX upgrade.

Please feel free to contact me with any thoughts or questions.
Cheers,
Tom Knox
SR Test and Measurement Engineer
Phoenix Research Group / Ascent Concepts and Technology
4870 Meredith Way Apt 102
Boulder, Co 80303
Formerly of:
357 Fox Lane
Superior Co 80027
303-554-0307
actast@hotmail.com

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/marshall-fire/superior-man-moving-forward-after-losing-dream-research-lab-during-marshall-fire

"Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of Justice" Both MLK and Albert Einstein

Hi All, I am sure most Time-Nuts have owned or are at least familiar with one of the many flavors of Lucent/AT&T RTFG and RFG frequency standards. What is frustrating is the main output ids 15MHz. Recently I decided to see how hard it would be to convert the 15MHz 23dB output to a 10MHz 23dB output. And I think I have found a really elegantly way to accomplish this by removing one filter and adding several jumpers. Once I have fully tested and documented this mod, I will post it for anyone interested. Time-Nut are welcome to contact me for a few current protos of the mod and share their insights. Related to this I have two questions: 1. One product I have converted to a 10MHz output is a Lucent RFG-XO which does not have GPS and is basically a disciplined ovenized quartz oscillator. But in experiments simply Appling an external 10MHz does nothing but connecting the interface cable to the matching RFG-RB it quickly locks. Apparently it was designed not to discipline the XO until the matching RB Locked. My guess is one pins on the interface switches low to enable the PLL. Does anyone know the pinout? 2. One thing I would currently find very use full is the Lucent Diagnostic Software, Does anyone have a copy? And can any version be run on a modern windows computer? Also, over the years I have seen some great posts about these, and it would be nice to find a place to combine and post all the past, current, and future information on mod and upgraded related to these.. For example, I know there were a number of Time-Nut posts on the Synergy UBLOX upgrade. Please feel free to contact me with any thoughts or questions. Cheers, Tom Knox SR Test and Measurement Engineer Phoenix Research Group / Ascent Concepts and Technology 4870 Meredith Way Apt 102 Boulder, Co 80303 Formerly of: 357 Fox Lane Superior Co 80027 303-554-0307 actast@hotmail.com https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/marshall-fire/superior-man-moving-forward-after-losing-dream-research-lab-during-marshall-fire "Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of Justice" Both MLK and Albert Einstein

DC

David C. Partridge

Thu, Jan 23, 2025 2:03 AM

This may be relevant:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ks24019-rftgm-ii-rb-and-rftgm-ii-xo-t
eardown-10mhz-output-and-other-mods

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Knox via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: 23 January 2025 00:06
To: Tom Knox actast@hotmail.com; Time-Nuts time-nuts@febo.com;
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Tom Knox actast@hotmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RTFG and RFG 10MHz main output

Hi All,
I am sure most Time-Nuts have owned or are at least familiar with one of the
many flavors of Lucent/AT&T RTFG and RFG frequency standards.
What is frustrating is the main output ids 15MHz.

This may be relevant: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ks24019-rftgm-ii-rb-and-rftgm-ii-xo-t eardown-10mhz-output-and-other-mods -----Original Message----- From: Tom Knox via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Sent: 23 January 2025 00:06 To: Tom Knox <actast@hotmail.com>; Time-Nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>; time-nuts@lists.febo.com Cc: Tom Knox <actast@hotmail.com> Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RTFG and RFG 10MHz main output Hi All, I am sure most Time-Nuts have owned or are at least familiar with one of the many flavors of Lucent/AT&T RTFG and RFG frequency standards. What is frustrating is the main output ids 15MHz.

AB

Azelio Boriani

Thu, Jan 23, 2025 11:29 AM

Maybe that the interface cable feeds the PPS and the disciplining is made
from that, not from the 10MHz.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:09 AM David C. Partridge via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

This may be relevant:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ks24019-rftgm-ii-rb-and-rftgm-ii-xo-t
eardown-10mhz-output-and-other-mods
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ks24019-rftgm-ii-rb-and-rftgm-ii-xo-teardown-10mhz-output-and-other-mods

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Knox via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: 23 January 2025 00:06
To: Tom Knox actast@hotmail.com; Time-Nuts time-nuts@febo.com;
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Tom Knox actast@hotmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RTFG and RFG 10MHz main output

Hi All,
I am sure most Time-Nuts have owned or are at least familiar with one of
the
many flavors of Lucent/AT&T RTFG and RFG frequency standards.
What is frustrating is the main output ids 15MHz.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Maybe that the interface cable feeds the PPS and the disciplining is made from that, not from the 10MHz. On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 3:09 AM David C. Partridge via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > This may be relevant: > > https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ks24019-rftgm-ii-rb-and-rftgm-ii-xo-t > eardown-10mhz-output-and-other-mods > <https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ks24019-rftgm-ii-rb-and-rftgm-ii-xo-teardown-10mhz-output-and-other-mods> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Knox via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Sent: 23 January 2025 00:06 > To: Tom Knox <actast@hotmail.com>; Time-Nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>; > time-nuts@lists.febo.com > Cc: Tom Knox <actast@hotmail.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Lucent RTFG and RFG 10MHz main output > > Hi All, > I am sure most Time-Nuts have owned or are at least familiar with one of > the > many flavors of Lucent/AT&T RTFG and RFG frequency standards. > What is frustrating is the main output ids 15MHz. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >

G

ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de

Thu, Jan 23, 2025 9:50 PM

Am 2025-01-23 1:06, schrieb Tom Knox via time-nuts:

Hi All,
I am sure most Time-Nuts have owned or are at least familiar with one
of the many flavors of Lucent/AT&T RTFG and RFG frequency standards.
What is frustrating is the main output ids 15MHz.
Recently I decided to see how hard it would be to convert the 15MHz
23dB output to a 10MHz 23dB output.

You have access to the 5 MHz output of the MTI-260 oven on J8 of the
main board
(1.75Vpp).

This is how I did it:

< http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/DoubDist.pdf >

The 5 MHz amplifier could be slightly better than the CFB op amp ??
Back then I only had access to a E5052B, so I could not measure the
phase noise of the 5 MHz oscillator itself and I could not determine
the weakest spot. The FET doubler is patterned after a NIST publication.
The Sub/harmonic suppression works with notch filters to leave the
phase stability of the 10 MHz carrier alone.

Cheers, Gerhard DK4XP

Am 2025-01-23 1:06, schrieb Tom Knox via time-nuts: > Hi All, > I am sure most Time-Nuts have owned or are at least familiar with one > of the many flavors of Lucent/AT&T RTFG and RFG frequency standards. > What is frustrating is the main output ids 15MHz. > Recently I decided to see how hard it would be to convert the 15MHz > 23dB output to a 10MHz 23dB output. You have access to the 5 MHz output of the MTI-260 oven on J8 of the main board (1.75Vpp). This is how I did it: < http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/DoubDist.pdf > The 5 MHz amplifier could be slightly better than the CFB op amp ?? Back then I only had access to a E5052B, so I could not measure the phase noise of the 5 MHz oscillator itself and I could not determine the weakest spot. The FET doubler is patterned after a NIST publication. The Sub/harmonic suppression works with notch filters to leave the phase stability of the 10 MHz carrier alone. Cheers, Gerhard DK4XP