One thing that I recommend is that after completing the layout is to: 1) step back and wait a few days 2) enjoy a few adult beverages while waiting 3) go back a re-check everything 4) send it out to the board house You'd be surprised how often simple, subtle, not so subtle glitches/tweaks/improvements show up after a pause in the process. --------------- > Once you get going, a board is a weekend project. Indeed, a simple board might be an evening project. There’s not a lot involved.

Thanks Mark for reminding me, spend 3 hours this morning reviewing designs to be released. Found a couple of problems. Also went back to look at the OCXO boards I released in 2018, found a problem on the board with no Amp, the SMA is not grounded. Easy to fix, but if some one wants new Gerber will publish it.Always try to have a third party check my designs. To many designs 30 this year. Bert Kehren In a message dated 5/13/2020 10:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, holrum@hotmail.com writes: One thing that I recommend is that after completing the layout is to:1) step back and wait a few days2) enjoy a few adult beverages while waiting3) go back a re-check everything4) send it out to the board house You'd be surprised how often simple, subtle, not so subtle glitches/tweaks/improvements show up after a pause in the process. --------------- > Once you get going, a board is a weekend project. Indeed, a simple board might be anevening project. There’s not a lot involved. _______________________________________________time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.comand follow the instructions there.

Hi I would toss in: If you are starting from scratch, pick a program that allows you to easily enter schematics as well as PCB layouts. Take the time to learn both sides of the program. That will give you an automated check between the schematic and the layout….. It also gives you a document to go back to / hand to others to show what the board was intended to do. Bob > On May 14, 2020, at 5:51 AM, ew via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Thanks Mark for reminding me, spend 3 hours this morning reviewing designs to be released. Found a couple of problems. Also went back to look at the OCXO boards I released in 2018, found a problem on the board with no Amp, the SMA is not grounded. Easy to fix, but if some one wants new Gerber will publish it.Always try to have a third party check my designs. To many designs 30 this year. > Bert Kehren > In a message dated 5/13/2020 10:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, holrum@hotmail.com writes: > > One thing that I recommend is that after completing the layout is to:1) step back and wait a few days2) enjoy a few adult beverages while waiting3) go back a re-check everything4) send it out to the board house > You'd be surprised how often simple, subtle, not so subtle glitches/tweaks/improvements show up after a pause in the process. > --------------- >> Once you get going, a board is a weekend project. Indeed, a simple board might be anevening project. There’s not a lot involved. _______________________________________________time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.comand follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

Hi All, I will second Bob's comment on choosing a program with PCB - Schematic integration. I can heartily recommend Kicad. I own Altium designer, but work remotely for an American firm from Germany. The US office uses PADs. We have finally agreed on projects going forward to both use Kicad. While Altium designer is more mature, and a little smoother to use, all of the programs have quirks, and require that you become familiar with them. So far I am not seeing any limitations in Kicad that would prevent getting good boards made. And, many prototype oriented houses accept Kicad PCB files directly (for example EUROCIRCUITS) , which saves you from generating Gerbers and drill files. And Kicad just keeps getting better. -- mike On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 4:30 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > I would toss in: > > If you are starting from scratch, pick a program that allows you to easily > enter schematics as well as PCB layouts. Take the time to learn both sides > of the program. That will give you an automated check between the schematic > and the layout….. It also gives you a document to go back to / hand to > others > to show what the board was intended to do. > > Bob > > > On May 14, 2020, at 5:51 AM, ew via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > wrote: > > > > Thanks Mark for reminding me, spend 3 hours this morning reviewing > designs to be released. Found a couple of problems. Also went back to look > at the OCXO boards I released in 2018, found a problem on the board with no > Amp, the SMA is not grounded. Easy to fix, but if some one wants new Gerber > will publish it.Always try to have a third party check my designs. To many > designs 30 this year. > > Bert Kehren > > In a message dated 5/13/2020 10:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > holrum@hotmail.com writes: > > > > One thing that I recommend is that after completing the layout is to:1) > step back and wait a few days2) enjoy a few adult beverages while waiting3) > go back a re-check everything4) send it out to the board house > > You'd be surprised how often simple, subtle, not so subtle > glitches/tweaks/improvements show up after a pause in the process. > > --------------- > >> Once you get going, a board is a weekend project. Indeed, a simple > board might be anevening project. There’s not a lot involved. > _______________________________________________time-nuts mailing list -- > time-nuts@lists.febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.comand follow > the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi Going from “pro” layout tools to KiCad, the only big thing that seems to be missing is a “full feature” DRC (design rules check) process in KiCad. The tools I worked with in the past had much more fine grained rules checking features. Probably not a big deal for a basement project. It would have stopped things dead if we tried to run it at work. We had at least 4 layers of rules checking that ran before the board finally went out for fab ….. Bob > On May 14, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Mike Ingle <finndmike62@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I will second Bob's comment on choosing a program with PCB - Schematic > integration. I can heartily recommend Kicad. I own Altium designer, but > work remotely for an American firm from Germany. The US office uses PADs. > We have finally agreed on projects going forward to both use Kicad. While > Altium designer is more mature, and a little smoother to use, all of the > programs have quirks, and require that you become familiar with them. So > far I am not seeing any limitations in Kicad that would prevent getting > good boards made. And, many prototype oriented houses accept Kicad PCB > files directly (for example EUROCIRCUITS) , which saves you from generating > Gerbers and drill files. > > And Kicad just keeps getting better. > > -- mike > > > > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 4:30 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I would toss in: >> >> If you are starting from scratch, pick a program that allows you to easily >> enter schematics as well as PCB layouts. Take the time to learn both sides >> of the program. That will give you an automated check between the schematic >> and the layout….. It also gives you a document to go back to / hand to >> others >> to show what the board was intended to do. >> >> Bob >> >>> On May 14, 2020, at 5:51 AM, ew via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Mark for reminding me, spend 3 hours this morning reviewing >> designs to be released. Found a couple of problems. Also went back to look >> at the OCXO boards I released in 2018, found a problem on the board with no >> Amp, the SMA is not grounded. Easy to fix, but if some one wants new Gerber >> will publish it.Always try to have a third party check my designs. To many >> designs 30 this year. >>> Bert Kehren >>> In a message dated 5/13/2020 10:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> holrum@hotmail.com writes: >>> >>> One thing that I recommend is that after completing the layout is to:1) >> step back and wait a few days2) enjoy a few adult beverages while waiting3) >> go back a re-check everything4) send it out to the board house >>> You'd be surprised how often simple, subtle, not so subtle >> glitches/tweaks/improvements show up after a pause in the process. >>> --------------- >>>> Once you get going, a board is a weekend project. Indeed, a simple >> board might be anevening project. There’s not a lot involved. >> _______________________________________________time-nuts mailing list -- >> time-nuts@lists.febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.comand follow >> the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.

Most of the PC board manufacturers run a rules check for your board against their process capability. I have had them catch some things from time to time that the design tool missed. For commercial business, I more rules checking is always better, but for hobby and personal purposes, I think the combination is very adequate. --- Graham On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:26 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > Going from “pro” layout tools to KiCad, the only big thing that seems to > be missing is a “full feature” DRC (design rules check) process in KiCad. > The tools I worked with in the past had much more fine grained rules > checking > features. > > Probably not a big deal for a basement project. It would have stopped > things > dead if we tried to run it at work. We had at least 4 layers of rules > checking > that ran before the board finally went out for fab ….. > > Bob > > > On May 14, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Mike Ingle <finndmike62@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I will second Bob's comment on choosing a program with PCB - Schematic > > integration. I can heartily recommend Kicad. I own Altium designer, but > > work remotely for an American firm from Germany. The US office uses > PADs. > > We have finally agreed on projects going forward to both use Kicad. > While > > Altium designer is more mature, and a little smoother to use, all of the > > programs have quirks, and require that you become familiar with them. So > > far I am not seeing any limitations in Kicad that would prevent getting > > good boards made. And, many prototype oriented houses accept Kicad PCB > > files directly (for example EUROCIRCUITS) , which saves you from > generating > > Gerbers and drill files. > > > > And Kicad just keeps getting better. > > > > -- mike > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 4:30 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> I would toss in: > >> > >> If you are starting from scratch, pick a program that allows you to > easily > >> enter schematics as well as PCB layouts. Take the time to learn both > sides > >> of the program. That will give you an automated check between the > schematic > >> and the layout….. It also gives you a document to go back to / hand to > >> others > >> to show what the board was intended to do. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On May 14, 2020, at 5:51 AM, ew via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Thanks Mark for reminding me, spend 3 hours this morning reviewing > >> designs to be released. Found a couple of problems. Also went back to > look > >> at the OCXO boards I released in 2018, found a problem on the board > with no > >> Amp, the SMA is not grounded. Easy to fix, but if some one wants new > Gerber > >> will publish it.Always try to have a third party check my designs. To > many > >> designs 30 this year. > >>> Bert Kehren > >>> In a message dated 5/13/2020 10:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >> holrum@hotmail.com writes: > >>> > >>> One thing that I recommend is that after completing the layout is to:1) > >> step back and wait a few days2) enjoy a few adult beverages while > waiting3) > >> go back a re-check everything4) send it out to the board house > >>> You'd be surprised how often simple, subtle, not so subtle > >> glitches/tweaks/improvements show up after a pause in the process. > >>> --------------- > >>>> Once you get going, a board is a weekend project. Indeed, a simple > >> board might be anevening project. There’s not a lot involved. > >> _______________________________________________time-nuts mailing list -- > >> time-nuts@lists.febo.comTo unsubscribe, go to > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.comand > follow > >> the instructions there. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. >