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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Re: [time-nuts] Beaglebone NTP server

CA
Chris Albertson
Mon, Dec 8, 2014 5:07 AM

On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:09 PM, folkert folkert@vanheusden.com wrote:

On my rpi the jitter is between 2 and 10us iirc but it is a while since
I tested it. A quick peak shows me currently 3us jitter. Not bad for a
userspace solution imho.

Really?  The PPS to GPIO interface is handles in user space?  It is not
interrupt driven?
In the implementations I've seen the critical real time work is done inside
the PPS interrupt handler and then of course ntpd runs in userland and can
take as much time as it needs

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:09 PM, folkert <folkert@vanheusden.com> wrote: > > On my rpi the jitter is between 2 and 10us iirc but it is a while since > I tested it. A quick peak shows me currently 3us jitter. Not bad for a > userspace solution imho. Really? The PPS to GPIO interface is handles in user space? It is not interrupt driven? In the implementations I've seen the critical real time work is done inside the PPS interrupt handler and then of course ntpd runs in userland and can take as much time as it needs -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California
NS
Neil Schroeder
Mon, Dec 8, 2014 6:39 AM

It can be but suffers from enough jitter to be unusable.

All current BBB out of the box kernels have PPS-gpio. Google PPS gpio DTS
bbb.

Enjoy :-)

On Sunday, December 7, 2014, Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com
wrote:

On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:09 PM, folkert <folkert@vanheusden.com
javascript:;> wrote:

On my rpi the jitter is between 2 and 10us iirc but it is a while since
I tested it. A quick peak shows me currently 3us jitter. Not bad for a
userspace solution imho.

Really?  The PPS to GPIO interface is handles in user space?  It is not
interrupt driven?
In the implementations I've seen the critical real time work is done inside
the PPS interrupt handler and then of course ntpd runs in userland and can
take as much time as it needs

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com javascript:;
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It can be but suffers from enough jitter to be unusable. All current BBB out of the box kernels have PPS-gpio. Google PPS gpio DTS bbb. Enjoy :-) On Sunday, December 7, 2014, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:09 PM, folkert <folkert@vanheusden.com > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > On my rpi the jitter is between 2 and 10us iirc but it is a while since > > I tested it. A quick peak shows me currently 3us jitter. Not bad for a > > userspace solution imho. > > > Really? The PPS to GPIO interface is handles in user space? It is not > interrupt driven? > In the implementations I've seen the critical real time work is done inside > the PPS interrupt handler and then of course ntpd runs in userland and can > take as much time as it needs > > -- > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
DJ
David J Taylor
Mon, Dec 8, 2014 7:41 AM

From: Chris Albertson

Really?  The PPS to GPIO interface is handles in user space?  It is not
interrupt driven?
In the implementations I've seen the critical real time work is done inside
the PPS interrupt handler and then of course ntpd runs in userland and can
take as much time as it needs

---================

Folkert's solution was very helpful, but there is now kernel-mode PPS
support for a GPIO pin the current Raspberry Pi Linux - see:

http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html#easy

I'm running that on a couple of systems here.

Cheers,
David

SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk

From: Chris Albertson Really? The PPS to GPIO interface is handles in user space? It is not interrupt driven? In the implementations I've seen the critical real time work is done inside the PPS interrupt handler and then of course ntpd runs in userland and can take as much time as it needs ================================================= Folkert's solution was very helpful, but there is now kernel-mode PPS support for a GPIO pin the current Raspberry Pi Linux - see: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html#easy I'm running that on a couple of systems here. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
F
Frister
Tue, Dec 9, 2014 1:57 PM

Thanks for pointing this out David,
Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions and
everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping with NTP
is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with
kernel PPS support
the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment)

73, Frits W1FVB

On 12/8/14, David J Taylor david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

From: Chris Albertson

Really?  The PPS to GPIO interface is handles in user space?  It is not
interrupt driven?
In the implementations I've seen the critical real time work is done inside
the PPS interrupt handler and then of course ntpd runs in userland and can
take as much time as it needs

---================

Folkert's solution was very helpful, but there is now kernel-mode PPS
support for a GPIO pin the current Raspberry Pi Linux - see:

http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html#easy

I'm running that on a couple of systems here.

Cheers,
David

SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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--
vbradio.wordpress.com

Thanks for pointing this out David, Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions and everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping with NTP is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with kernel PPS support the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment) 73, Frits W1FVB On 12/8/14, David J Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > From: Chris Albertson > > Really? The PPS to GPIO interface is handles in user space? It is not > interrupt driven? > In the implementations I've seen the critical real time work is done inside > the PPS interrupt handler and then of course ntpd runs in userland and can > take as much time as it needs > ================================================= > > Folkert's solution was very helpful, but there is now kernel-mode PPS > support for a GPIO pin the current Raspberry Pi Linux - see: > > http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html#easy > > I'm running that on a couple of systems here. > > Cheers, > David > -- > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- vbradio.wordpress.com
DJ
David J Taylor
Tue, Dec 9, 2014 3:04 PM

Thanks for pointing this out David,
Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions
and
everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping with
NTP
is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with
kernel PPS support
the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment)

73, Frits W1FVB

---=============

Oh, yes!  That's much better, Frits!  Delighted to have helped!

(Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be
causing that?)

73,
David GM8ARV

SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk

Thanks for pointing this out David, Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions and everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping with NTP is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with kernel PPS support the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment) 73, Frits W1FVB ============================================== Oh, yes! That's much better, Frits! Delighted to have helped! (Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be causing that?) 73, David GM8ARV -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
BD
Bob Darlington
Tue, Dec 9, 2014 5:18 PM

Hourly cron jobs, perhaps?

-Bob

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 8:04 AM, David J Taylor <
david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Thanks for pointing this out David,
Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions
and
everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping
with NTP
is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with
kernel PPS support
the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment)

73, Frits W1FVB

---=============

Oh, yes!  That's much better, Frits!  Delighted to have helped!

(Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be
causing that?)

73,
David GM8ARV

--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hourly cron jobs, perhaps? -Bob On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 8:04 AM, David J Taylor < david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Thanks for pointing this out David, > Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions > and > everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping > with NTP > is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with > kernel PPS support > the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment) > > 73, Frits W1FVB > ============================================== > > Oh, yes! That's much better, Frits! Delighted to have helped! > > (Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be > causing that?) > > 73, > David GM8ARV > > -- > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
G/
Graham / KE9H
Tue, Dec 9, 2014 5:59 PM

For those of you that have gotten the BeagleBone Black up and
running as an ntp server with the 1PPS signal input in kernel space,
what gpio input pin is being used?

I guess I am asking if the kernel "pps-gpio" has a specific preferred pin,
or whether it can be mapped to any available gpio pin.

Thanks,
--- Graham / KE9H

==

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Bob Darlington rdarlington@gmail.com
wrote:

Hourly cron jobs, perhaps?

-Bob

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 8:04 AM, David J Taylor <
david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Thanks for pointing this out David,
Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions
and
everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping
with NTP
is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with
kernel PPS support
the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment)

73, Frits W1FVB

---=============

Oh, yes!  That's much better, Frits!  Delighted to have helped!

(Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be
causing that?)

73,
David GM8ARV

--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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and follow the instructions there.

For those of you that have gotten the BeagleBone Black up and running as an ntp server with the 1PPS signal input in kernel space, what gpio input pin is being used? I guess I am asking if the kernel "pps-gpio" has a specific preferred pin, or whether it can be mapped to any available gpio pin. Thanks, --- Graham / KE9H == On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Bob Darlington <rdarlington@gmail.com> wrote: > Hourly cron jobs, perhaps? > > -Bob > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 8:04 AM, David J Taylor < > david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > > > Thanks for pointing this out David, > > Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions > > and > > everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping > > with NTP > > is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with > > kernel PPS support > > the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment) > > > > 73, Frits W1FVB > > ============================================== > > > > Oh, yes! That's much better, Frits! Delighted to have helped! > > > > (Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be > > causing that?) > > > > 73, > > David GM8ARV > > > > -- > > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > > Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
F
Frister
Tue, Dec 9, 2014 7:45 PM

Hi David,
Yes, You mean the hourly dips? That is caused by the the VLF receive
software that
is running on the same PI. It makes hourly recordings of DC to 24 Khz
with a USB soundcard. The CPU is running at max capacity most of the
time.

Perhaps it is now time for a dedicated PI, that only has the task of
playing Stratum One.

If anyone is interested:
https://pivlf.wordpress.com/

73, Frits W1FVB

On 12/9/14, David J Taylor david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

Thanks for pointing this out David,
Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions
and
everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping with

NTP
is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with
kernel PPS support
the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment)

73, Frits W1FVB

---=============

Oh, yes!  That's much better, Frits!  Delighted to have helped!

(Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be
causing that?)

73,
David GM8ARV

SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
vbradio.wordpress.com

Hi David, Yes, You mean the hourly dips? That is caused by the the VLF receive software that is running on the same PI. It makes hourly recordings of DC to 24 Khz with a USB soundcard. The CPU is running at max capacity most of the time. Perhaps it is now time for a dedicated PI, that only has the task of playing Stratum One. If anyone is interested: https://pivlf.wordpress.com/ 73, Frits W1FVB On 12/9/14, David J Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Thanks for pointing this out David, > Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions > and > everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping with > > NTP > is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with > kernel PPS support > the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment) > > 73, Frits W1FVB > ============================================== > > Oh, yes! That's much better, Frits! Delighted to have helped! > > (Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be > causing that?) > > 73, > David GM8ARV > -- > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- vbradio.wordpress.com
DD
Dan Drown
Tue, Dec 9, 2014 9:56 PM

If you're using the pps-gpio module, the hardware can support "up to
Two Interrupt Inputs per Bank".  So if you're not using the gpio for
anything else, any of the gpio should work.

If you want to use the timer hardware (and pps-dmtimer module), each
timer has an assigned pin.

Quoting Graham / KE9H ke9h.graham@gmail.com:

For those of you that have gotten the BeagleBone Black up and
running as an ntp server with the 1PPS signal input in kernel space,
what gpio input pin is being used?

I guess I am asking if the kernel "pps-gpio" has a specific preferred pin,
or whether it can be mapped to any available gpio pin.

Thanks,
--- Graham / KE9H

==

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Bob Darlington rdarlington@gmail.com
wrote:

Hourly cron jobs, perhaps?

-Bob

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 8:04 AM, David J Taylor <
david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Thanks for pointing this out David,
Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions
and
everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping
with NTP
is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with
kernel PPS support
the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment)

73, Frits W1FVB

---=============

Oh, yes!  That's much better, Frits!  Delighted to have helped!

(Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be
causing that?)

73,
David GM8ARV

--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.

If you're using the pps-gpio module, the hardware can support "up to Two Interrupt Inputs per Bank". So if you're not using the gpio for anything else, any of the gpio should work. If you want to use the timer hardware (and pps-dmtimer module), each timer has an assigned pin. Quoting Graham / KE9H <ke9h.graham@gmail.com>: > For those of you that have gotten the BeagleBone Black up and > running as an ntp server with the 1PPS signal input in kernel space, > what gpio input pin is being used? > > I guess I am asking if the kernel "pps-gpio" has a specific preferred pin, > or whether it can be mapped to any available gpio pin. > > Thanks, > --- Graham / KE9H > > == > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Bob Darlington <rdarlington@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hourly cron jobs, perhaps? >> >> -Bob >> >> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 8:04 AM, David J Taylor < >> david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >> >> > Thanks for pointing this out David, >> > Compiling an new kernel was holding me back. I followed your instructions >> > and >> > everything works beautiful. The PI that is running the PPS timekeeping >> > with NTP >> > is serving as a VLF receiver as well. Taxing the poor CPU, but with >> > kernel PPS support >> > the NTP daemon has become way happier! (see attachment) >> > >> > 73, Frits W1FVB >> > ============================================== >> > >> > Oh, yes! That's much better, Frits! Delighted to have helped! >> > >> > (Although it now shows up an hourly periodicity - any idea what might be >> > causing that?) >> > >> > 73, >> > David GM8ARV >> > >> > -- >> > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements >> > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu >> > Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk >> > _______________________________________________ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
P
Paul
Tue, Dec 9, 2014 11:33 PM

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Graham / KE9H ke9h.graham@gmail.com
wrote:

I guess I am asking if the kernel "pps-gpio" has a specific preferred pin,
or whether it can be mapped to any available gpio pin.

The provided-with-stock-dtb pin is: <0x40> which is P9 pin 15.
I use the only "free" pin on P8 or P9: <0x7c> which is P8 pin 26

There are various maps/charts/lists around with the pins.  Just decompile
/lib/firmware/BB-BONE-GPS-00A0.dtbo and fiddle if you want a different
pin.  The Debian relases come with dtc, I don't know about Angstrom.

e.g.
http://www.embedded-things.com/bbb/beaglebone-black-pin-mux-spreadsheet/

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Graham / KE9H <ke9h.graham@gmail.com> wrote: > I guess I am asking if the kernel "pps-gpio" has a specific preferred pin, > or whether it can be mapped to any available gpio pin. > The provided-with-stock-dtb pin is: <0x40> which is P9 pin 15. I use the only "free" pin on P8 or P9: <0x7c> which is P8 pin 26 There are various maps/charts/lists around with the pins. Just decompile /lib/firmware/BB-BONE-GPS-00A0.dtbo and fiddle if you want a different pin. The Debian relases come with dtc, I don't know about Angstrom. e.g. <http://www.embedded-things.com/bbb/beaglebone-black-pin-mux-spreadsheet/>