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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Conducting Bench Top Material

B
Brucekareen@aol.com
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 3:42 PM

My electronic bench is an old commercial one made with steel stampings and
a steel top covered with Masonite.  The Masonite is still in fair
condition.  Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an  asset in
avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static  discharges when
handling modern semiconductors.  Would it make sense  to spray the Masonite
with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to  make the masonite
slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC  connections could not
safely rest upon it?  Is there a better-suited  material that could be used
to replace the Masonite?

Ironically, in the 1960's, Transite (asbestos) was sometimes used as a
covering for electronic benches as as it was resistant to molten  solder.  The
downside was that in sliding heavy equipment around,  friable material could
be released.

Bruce Hunter

My electronic bench is an old commercial one made with steel stampings and a steel top covered with Masonite. The Masonite is still in fair condition. Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an asset in avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static discharges when handling modern semiconductors. Would it make sense to spray the Masonite with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to make the masonite slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC connections could not safely rest upon it? Is there a better-suited material that could be used to replace the Masonite? Ironically, in the 1960's, Transite (asbestos) was sometimes used as a covering for electronic benches as as it was resistant to molten solder. The downside was that in sliding heavy equipment around, friable material could be released. Bruce Hunter
RD
Robert Darlington
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 4:24 PM

I use "Stat-Les" anti-static floor finish on my benches.  You can find it at
Legge Systems,
http://www.leggesystems.com/c-177-static-control-floor-care-products.aspx
The price is pretty good for the 1 quart size bottles ($20 or so) and that
does a lot of benches.

-Bob, N3XKB

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Brucekareen@aol.com wrote:

My electronic bench is an old commercial one made with steel stampings and
a steel top covered with Masonite.  The Masonite is still in fair
condition.  Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an
asset in
avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static  discharges when
handling modern semiconductors.  Would it make sense  to spray the Masonite
with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to  make the masonite
slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC  connections could
not
safely rest upon it?  Is there a better-suited  material that could be used
to replace the Masonite?

Ironically, in the 1960's, Transite (asbestos) was sometimes used as a
covering for electronic benches as as it was resistant to molten  solder.
The
downside was that in sliding heavy equipment around,  friable material
could
be released.

Bruce Hunter


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and follow the instructions there.

I use "Stat-Les" anti-static floor finish on my benches. You can find it at Legge Systems, http://www.leggesystems.com/c-177-static-control-floor-care-products.aspx The price is pretty good for the 1 quart size bottles ($20 or so) and that does a lot of benches. -Bob, N3XKB On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 8:42 AM, <Brucekareen@aol.com> wrote: > My electronic bench is an old commercial one made with steel stampings and > a steel top covered with Masonite. The Masonite is still in fair > condition. Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an > asset in > avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static discharges when > handling modern semiconductors. Would it make sense to spray the Masonite > with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to make the masonite > slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC connections could > not > safely rest upon it? Is there a better-suited material that could be used > to replace the Masonite? > > Ironically, in the 1960's, Transite (asbestos) was sometimes used as a > covering for electronic benches as as it was resistant to molten solder. > The > downside was that in sliding heavy equipment around, friable material > could > be released. > > Bruce Hunter > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
CP
Charles P. Steinmetz
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:27 PM

Bruce wrote:

Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an  asset in
avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static  discharges when
handling modern semiconductors.  Would it make sense  to spray the Masonite
with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to  make the masonite
slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC  connections
could not
safely rest upon it?  Is there a better-suited  material that could be used
to replace the Masonite?

I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use
anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try
to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less
in the winter).  I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35
years and haven't lost one to static yet.  With that perspective, my
preferred benchtop is white Formica with a very, very slightly
pebbled surface.  Very durable, including to molten solder, and small
parts show up well.  I use rubberized "gunsmith" mats for preventing
scratches to delicate workpieces (these happen to be anti-static, but
that is not why I have them).

Other bench thoughts:

Bench depth is very important.  I sometimes work on equipment that is
more than 24" deep, so I want at least 30" of clear space in front of
any obstructions (power strips, Variac, test equipment,
whatever).  In the past, I used a "flying bridge" over the rear 18"
of a 48"-deep bench to elevate the test equipment, which worked very
well.  Now I use 24" deep adjustable wire-rack shelving units behind
a 30" benchtop (As others have pointed out, you can do the same with
equipment racks -- I'm not a fan of rack-mounting test equipment
unless the racks are anchored and everything is on slides, which I
was not prepared to do).  I don't have enough shop real estate to
have a permanent access aisle behind the test equipment, so the bench
and racks have large (5") locking polyurethane wheels and can be
pulled out relatively easily for reconfiguration.  This provides
plenty of stability for electronic projects, but you wouldn't want to
mount a big vise on the bench and try to bend 1" rebar.  For that, I
have a separate metalworking shop.

Bench height is also important.  I prefer a tall bench, suited to
working standing or sitting on an ergonomic stool, so my bench top is
44" above the floor -- a bit below my standing elbow height.

Finally, one can never have too many power outlets, or too much
light, in a workshop.  Lighting should be arranged so that it doesn't
cause specular reflections from the workpiece or the faces of test equipment.

Best regards,

Charles

Bruce wrote: >Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an asset in >avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static discharges when >handling modern semiconductors. Would it make sense to spray the Masonite >with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to make the masonite >slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC connections >could not >safely rest upon it? Is there a better-suited material that could be used >to replace the Masonite? I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less in the winter). I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35 years and haven't lost one to static yet. With that perspective, my preferred benchtop is white Formica with a very, very slightly pebbled surface. Very durable, including to molten solder, and small parts show up well. I use rubberized "gunsmith" mats for preventing scratches to delicate workpieces (these happen to be anti-static, but that is not why I have them). Other bench thoughts: Bench depth is very important. I sometimes work on equipment that is more than 24" deep, so I want at least 30" of clear space in front of any obstructions (power strips, Variac, test equipment, whatever). In the past, I used a "flying bridge" over the rear 18" of a 48"-deep bench to elevate the test equipment, which worked very well. Now I use 24" deep adjustable wire-rack shelving units behind a 30" benchtop (As others have pointed out, you can do the same with equipment racks -- I'm not a fan of rack-mounting test equipment unless the racks are anchored and everything is on slides, which I was not prepared to do). I don't have enough shop real estate to have a permanent access aisle behind the test equipment, so the bench and racks have large (5") locking polyurethane wheels and can be pulled out relatively easily for reconfiguration. This provides plenty of stability for electronic projects, but you wouldn't want to mount a big vise on the bench and try to bend 1" rebar. For that, I have a separate metalworking shop. Bench height is also important. I prefer a tall bench, suited to working standing or sitting on an ergonomic stool, so my bench top is 44" above the floor -- a bit below my standing elbow height. Finally, one can never have too many power outlets, or too much light, in a workshop. Lighting should be arranged so that it doesn't cause specular reflections from the workpiece or the faces of test equipment. Best regards, Charles
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:31 PM

In message 20100125182712.7014911B858@karen.lavabit.com, "Charles P. Steinmet
z" writes:

Bruce wrote:

I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use
anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary [...]

My worktable has a surface of hardwood-floor-boards and a painted
steel profile on the front that I make point out of touching before
sticking my fingers into any sensitive circuits.  Works for me.

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

In message <20100125182712.7014911B858@karen.lavabit.com>, "Charles P. Steinmet z" writes: >Bruce wrote: >I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use >anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary [...] My worktable has a surface of hardwood-floor-boards and a painted steel profile on the front that I make point out of touching before sticking my fingers into any sensitive circuits. Works for me. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
RD
Robert Darlington
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:32 PM

Hi Charles,

I'm in a similar boat where I've worked with static sensitive parts without
any problems without having so much as put on a wrist strap.  It's just
never been an issue, even with our RH sitting around 12% here in New
Mexico.  I've been shoulder deep in Cray and SGI supercomputers without
worrying about it.  Then the day came where I needed to do surgery on my
network analyzer.  I figured the $20 for the coating was cheap insurance.  I
don't have $37k sitting around to replace it should I fry it.  That was the
first time I ever put on a wrist strap too!

-Bob

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Charles P. Steinmetz <
charles_steinmetz@lavabit.com> wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an  asset in

avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static  discharges
when
handling modern semiconductors.  Would it make sense  to spray the
Masonite
with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to  make the
masonite
slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC  connections could
not
safely rest upon it?  Is there a better-suited  material that could be
used
to replace the Masonite?

I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use
anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try to
keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less in the
winter).  I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35 years and
haven't lost one to static yet.  With that perspective, my preferred
benchtop is white Formica with a very, very slightly pebbled surface.  Very
durable, including to molten solder, and small parts show up well.  I use
rubberized "gunsmith" mats for preventing scratches to delicate workpieces
(these happen to be anti-static, but that is not why I have them).

Other bench thoughts:

Bench depth is very important.  I sometimes work on equipment that is more
than 24" deep, so I want at least 30" of clear space in front of any
obstructions (power strips, Variac, test equipment, whatever).  In the past,
I used a "flying bridge" over the rear 18" of a 48"-deep bench to elevate
the test equipment, which worked very well.  Now I use 24" deep adjustable
wire-rack shelving units behind a 30" benchtop (As others have pointed out,
you can do the same with equipment racks -- I'm not a fan of rack-mounting
test equipment unless the racks are anchored and everything is on slides,
which I was not prepared to do).  I don't have enough shop real estate to
have a permanent access aisle behind the test equipment, so the bench and
racks have large (5") locking polyurethane wheels and can be pulled out
relatively easily for reconfiguration.  This provides plenty of stability
for electronic projects, but you wouldn't want to mount a big vise on the
bench and try to bend 1" rebar.  For that, I have a separate metalworking
shop.

Bench height is also important.  I prefer a tall bench, suited to working
standing or sitting on an ergonomic stool, so my bench top is 44" above the
floor -- a bit below my standing elbow height.

Finally, one can never have too many power outlets, or too much light, in a
workshop.  Lighting should be arranged so that it doesn't cause specular
reflections from the workpiece or the faces of test equipment.

Best regards,

Charles


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To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Charles, I'm in a similar boat where I've worked with static sensitive parts without any problems without having so much as put on a wrist strap. It's just never been an issue, even with our RH sitting around 12% here in New Mexico. I've been shoulder deep in Cray and SGI supercomputers without worrying about it. Then the day came where I needed to do surgery on my network analyzer. I figured the $20 for the coating was cheap insurance. I don't have $37k sitting around to replace it should I fry it. That was the first time I ever put on a wrist strap too! -Bob On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Charles P. Steinmetz < charles_steinmetz@lavabit.com> wrote: > Bruce wrote: > > Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an asset in >> avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static discharges >> when >> handling modern semiconductors. Would it make sense to spray the >> Masonite >> with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to make the >> masonite >> slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC connections could >> not >> safely rest upon it? Is there a better-suited material that could be >> used >> to replace the Masonite? >> > > I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use > anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try to > keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less in the > winter). I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35 years and > haven't lost one to static yet. With that perspective, my preferred > benchtop is white Formica with a very, very slightly pebbled surface. Very > durable, including to molten solder, and small parts show up well. I use > rubberized "gunsmith" mats for preventing scratches to delicate workpieces > (these happen to be anti-static, but that is not why I have them). > > Other bench thoughts: > > Bench depth is very important. I sometimes work on equipment that is more > than 24" deep, so I want at least 30" of clear space in front of any > obstructions (power strips, Variac, test equipment, whatever). In the past, > I used a "flying bridge" over the rear 18" of a 48"-deep bench to elevate > the test equipment, which worked very well. Now I use 24" deep adjustable > wire-rack shelving units behind a 30" benchtop (As others have pointed out, > you can do the same with equipment racks -- I'm not a fan of rack-mounting > test equipment unless the racks are anchored and everything is on slides, > which I was not prepared to do). I don't have enough shop real estate to > have a permanent access aisle behind the test equipment, so the bench and > racks have large (5") locking polyurethane wheels and can be pulled out > relatively easily for reconfiguration. This provides plenty of stability > for electronic projects, but you wouldn't want to mount a big vise on the > bench and try to bend 1" rebar. For that, I have a separate metalworking > shop. > > Bench height is also important. I prefer a tall bench, suited to working > standing or sitting on an ergonomic stool, so my bench top is 44" above the > floor -- a bit below my standing elbow height. > > Finally, one can never have too many power outlets, or too much light, in a > workshop. Lighting should be arranged so that it doesn't cause specular > reflections from the workpiece or the faces of test equipment. > > Best regards, > > Charles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
LJ
Lux, Jim (337C)
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:54 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:27 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

Bruce wrote:

Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an  asset in
avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static  discharges when
handling modern semiconductors.  Would it make sense  to spray the Masonite
with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to  make the masonite
slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC  connections
could not
safely rest upon it?  Is there a better-suited  material that could be used
to replace the Masonite?

One generally looks for static-dissipative surfaces, rather than conductive surfaces. 1 Megohm/square, for instance.  The idea is to keep everything isopotential as charge drops onto things, not to rigorously establish a common voltage.

I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use
anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try
to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less
in the winter).  I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35
years and haven't lost one to static yet

You haven't lost one that you know of. It also depends on the kinds of parts you're working with. There are some that are quite sensitive AND which don't fail outright, but just degrade performance a bit when they take a hit. It also depends on the energy behind the hit, of course.  An example might be the MiniCircuits ERA-4 or ERA-5 (just because I happen to have the data sheet handy).  Take a look at the later pages in the report, and you can see where the gain changes slightly as a result of 100V ESD hits (see page 6, where you can see gain dropping about 1.5 dB over 8 pulses, with about 0.1dB per hit.)

As they say at the end of the report:
The new amplifier ERA-4XSM shows gradual degradation in the gain and the
device voltage. That fact is not so bad. Even with the multiple stress a customer
would rather have gradual changes then catastrophic failure. The amplifier
withstands a single 100V ESD pulse, or 3 pulses at 50V.

http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/an60028.pdf


When we (JPL) do site visits to vendors, lackadaisical approaches to ESD handling are one of the common problems. For us, who are building just one or two of something that's going to be going somewhere where repair isn't an option, latent damage and gradual degradation are a big deal.

It's really a "habit" thing that everyone has to get used to. That's why even nuts and bolts come in ESD packaging (even though they're obviously ESD immune): it gets people in the mindset of "come in the area, put on the wrist strap".  Back in the 70s, when ESD processes started to be used, they would have multiple categories of parts, some which needed ESD precautions (CMOS parts, DRAMs,etc.) and some which didn't (resistors, capacitors).  It was found that workers would be working with something in one category, and the habits would carry over to the others, so the industry, in general, went to the "everything is ESD sensitive" approach.

The worst offenders for ESD are the engineers (like those of us reading the list!), because they actually know what parts are sensitive and which aren't, and tend to take shortcuts with the non-sensitive parts.  Which works, sort of, until they guess wrong, and cook something.  "Hey, why is the NF on this LNA 0.2 dB higher than it was yesterday?"

jim

> -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:27 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material > > Bruce wrote: > > >Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an asset in > >avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static discharges when > >handling modern semiconductors. Would it make sense to spray the Masonite > >with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to make the masonite > >slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC connections > >could not > >safely rest upon it? Is there a better-suited material that could be used > >to replace the Masonite? One generally looks for static-dissipative surfaces, rather than conductive surfaces. 1 Megohm/square, for instance. The idea is to keep everything isopotential as charge drops onto things, not to rigorously establish a common voltage. > > I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use > anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try > to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less > in the winter). I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35 > years and haven't lost one to static yet You haven't lost one *that you know of*. It also depends on the kinds of parts you're working with. There are some that are quite sensitive AND which don't fail outright, but just degrade performance a bit when they take a hit. It also depends on the energy behind the hit, of course. An example might be the MiniCircuits ERA-4 or ERA-5 (just because I happen to have the data sheet handy). Take a look at the later pages in the report, and you can see where the gain changes slightly as a result of 100V ESD hits (see page 6, where you can see gain dropping about 1.5 dB over 8 pulses, with about 0.1dB per hit.) As they say at the end of the report: The new amplifier ERA-4XSM shows gradual degradation in the gain and the device voltage. That fact is not so bad. Even with the multiple stress a customer would rather have gradual changes then catastrophic failure. The amplifier withstands a single 100V ESD pulse, or 3 pulses at 50V. http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/an60028.pdf ---- When we (JPL) do site visits to vendors, lackadaisical approaches to ESD handling are one of the common problems. For us, who are building just one or two of something that's going to be going somewhere where repair isn't an option, latent damage and gradual degradation are a big deal. It's really a "habit" thing that everyone has to get used to. That's why even nuts and bolts come in ESD packaging (even though they're obviously ESD immune): it gets people in the mindset of "come in the area, put on the wrist strap". Back in the 70s, when ESD processes started to be used, they would have multiple categories of parts, some which needed ESD precautions (CMOS parts, DRAMs,etc.) and some which didn't (resistors, capacitors). It was found that workers would be working with something in one category, and the habits would carry over to the others, so the industry, in general, went to the "everything is ESD sensitive" approach. The *worst* offenders for ESD are the engineers (like those of us reading the list!), because they actually know what parts are sensitive and which aren't, and tend to take shortcuts with the non-sensitive parts. Which works, sort of, until they guess wrong, and cook something. "Hey, why is the NF on this LNA 0.2 dB higher than it was yesterday?" jim
EP
Ed Palmer
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:59 PM

I've still got a paper copy of an HP Bench Brief from 1983 that was one
of my first introductions to the dangers of ESD.  I've used a wrist
strap and antistatic mat since then.  ESD protection in the ICs has
improved since then, but I think that the article is still mostly
applicable today.

http://www.hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1983-03-05.pdf

Ed

Lux, Jim (337C) wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:27 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

Bruce wrote:

Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an  asset in
avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static  discharges when
handling modern semiconductors.  Would it make sense  to spray the Masonite
with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to  make the masonite
slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC  connections
could not
safely rest upon it?  Is there a better-suited  material that could be used
to replace the Masonite?

One generally looks for static-dissipative surfaces, rather than conductive surfaces. 1 Megohm/square, for instance.  The idea is to keep everything isopotential as charge drops onto things, not to rigorously establish a common voltage.

I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use
anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try
to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less
in the winter).  I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35
years and haven't lost one to static yet

You haven't lost one that you know of. It also depends on the kinds of parts you're working with. There are some that are quite sensitive AND which don't fail outright, but just degrade performance a bit when they take a hit. It also depends on the energy behind the hit, of course.  An example might be the MiniCircuits ERA-4 or ERA-5 (just because I happen to have the data sheet handy).  Take a look at the later pages in the report, and you can see where the gain changes slightly as a result of 100V ESD hits (see page 6, where you can see gain dropping about 1.5 dB over 8 pulses, with about 0.1dB per hit.)

As they say at the end of the report:
The new amplifier ERA-4XSM shows gradual degradation in the gain and the
device voltage. That fact is not so bad. Even with the multiple stress a customer
would rather have gradual changes then catastrophic failure. The amplifier
withstands a single 100V ESD pulse, or 3 pulses at 50V.

http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/an60028.pdf


When we (JPL) do site visits to vendors, lackadaisical approaches to ESD handling are one of the common problems. For us, who are building just one or two of something that's going to be going somewhere where repair isn't an option, latent damage and gradual degradation are a big deal.

It's really a "habit" thing that everyone has to get used to. That's why even nuts and bolts come in ESD packaging (even though they're obviously ESD immune): it gets people in the mindset of "come in the area, put on the wrist strap".  Back in the 70s, when ESD processes started to be used, they would have multiple categories of parts, some which needed ESD precautions (CMOS parts, DRAMs,etc.) and some which didn't (resistors, capacitors).  It was found that workers would be working with something in one category, and the habits would carry over to the others, so the industry, in general, went to the "everything is ESD sensitive" approach.

The worst offenders for ESD are the engineers (like those of us reading the list!), because they actually know what parts are sensitive and which aren't, and tend to take shortcuts with the non-sensitive parts.  Which works, sort of, until they guess wrong, and cook something.  "Hey, why is the NF on this LNA 0.2 dB higher than it was yesterday?"

jim

I've still got a paper copy of an HP Bench Brief from 1983 that was one of my first introductions to the dangers of ESD. I've used a wrist strap and antistatic mat since then. ESD protection in the ICs has improved since then, but I think that the article is still mostly applicable today. http://www.hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1983-03-05.pdf Ed Lux, Jim (337C) wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz >> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:27 AM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material >> >> Bruce wrote: >> >> >>> Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an asset in >>> avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static discharges when >>> handling modern semiconductors. Would it make sense to spray the Masonite >>> with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to make the masonite >>> slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC connections >>> could not >>> safely rest upon it? Is there a better-suited material that could be used >>> to replace the Masonite? >>> > > One generally looks for static-dissipative surfaces, rather than conductive surfaces. 1 Megohm/square, for instance. The idea is to keep everything isopotential as charge drops onto things, not to rigorously establish a common voltage. > > >> I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use >> anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try >> to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less >> in the winter). I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35 >> years and haven't lost one to static yet >> > > You haven't lost one *that you know of*. It also depends on the kinds of parts you're working with. There are some that are quite sensitive AND which don't fail outright, but just degrade performance a bit when they take a hit. It also depends on the energy behind the hit, of course. An example might be the MiniCircuits ERA-4 or ERA-5 (just because I happen to have the data sheet handy). Take a look at the later pages in the report, and you can see where the gain changes slightly as a result of 100V ESD hits (see page 6, where you can see gain dropping about 1.5 dB over 8 pulses, with about 0.1dB per hit.) > > As they say at the end of the report: > The new amplifier ERA-4XSM shows gradual degradation in the gain and the > device voltage. That fact is not so bad. Even with the multiple stress a customer > would rather have gradual changes then catastrophic failure. The amplifier > withstands a single 100V ESD pulse, or 3 pulses at 50V. > > http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/an60028.pdf > > > ---- > > When we (JPL) do site visits to vendors, lackadaisical approaches to ESD handling are one of the common problems. For us, who are building just one or two of something that's going to be going somewhere where repair isn't an option, latent damage and gradual degradation are a big deal. > > It's really a "habit" thing that everyone has to get used to. That's why even nuts and bolts come in ESD packaging (even though they're obviously ESD immune): it gets people in the mindset of "come in the area, put on the wrist strap". Back in the 70s, when ESD processes started to be used, they would have multiple categories of parts, some which needed ESD precautions (CMOS parts, DRAMs,etc.) and some which didn't (resistors, capacitors). It was found that workers would be working with something in one category, and the habits would carry over to the others, so the industry, in general, went to the "everything is ESD sensitive" approach. > > The *worst* offenders for ESD are the engineers (like those of us reading the list!), because they actually know what parts are sensitive and which aren't, and tend to take shortcuts with the non-sensitive parts. Which works, sort of, until they guess wrong, and cook something. "Hey, why is the NF on this LNA 0.2 dB higher than it was yesterday?" > > > jim >
SB
Scott Burris
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 8:11 PM

So looking at ESD mat material at Digikey, there appears to be a
bewildering array of choices.  Elastomer, rubber, vinyl,
thermoplastic, laminate, foam rubber, and polyethelene.

Any guidelines about what to choose?

Scott

On Jan 25, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Ed Palmer ed_palmer@sasktel.net wrote:

I've still got a paper copy of an HP Bench Brief from 1983 that was
one of my first introductions to the dangers of ESD.  I've used a
wrist strap and antistatic mat since then.  ESD protection in the
ICs has improved since then, but I think that the article is still
mostly applicable today.

http://www.hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1983-03-05.pdf

Ed

Lux, Jim (337C) wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-
bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:27 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

Bruce wrote:

Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an  asset
in
avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static
discharges when
handling modern semiconductors.  Would it make sense  to spray
the Masonite
with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to  make
the masonite
slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC
connections
could not
safely rest upon it?  Is there a better-suited  material that
could be used
to replace the Masonite?

One generally looks for static-dissipative surfaces, rather than
conductive surfaces. 1 Megohm/square, for instance.  The idea is to
keep everything isopotential as charge drops onto things, not to
rigorously establish a common voltage.

I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use
anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I
try
to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less
in the winter).  I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for
35
years and haven't lost one to static yet

You haven't lost one that you know of. It also depends on the
kinds of parts you're working with. There are some that are quite
sensitive AND which don't fail outright, but just degrade
performance a bit when they take a hit. It also depends on the
energy behind the hit, of course.  An example might be the
MiniCircuits ERA-4 or ERA-5 (just because I happen to have the data
sheet handy).  Take a look at the later pages in the report, and
you can see where the gain changes slightly as a result of 100V ESD
hits (see page 6, where you can see gain dropping about 1.5 dB over
8 pulses, with about 0.1dB per hit.)

As they say at the end of the report:
The new amplifier ERA-4XSM shows gradual degradation in the gain
and the
device voltage. That fact is not so bad. Even with the multiple
stress a customer
would rather have gradual changes then catastrophic failure. The
amplifier
withstands a single 100V ESD pulse, or 3 pulses at 50V.

http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/an60028.pdf


When we (JPL) do site visits to vendors, lackadaisical approaches
to ESD handling are one of the common problems. For us, who are
building just one or two of something that's going to be going
somewhere where repair isn't an option, latent damage and gradual
degradation are a big deal.
It's really a "habit" thing that everyone has to get used to.
That's why even nuts and bolts come in ESD packaging (even though
they're obviously ESD immune): it gets people in the mindset of
"come in the area, put on the wrist strap".  Back in the 70s, when
ESD processes started to be used, they would have multiple
categories of parts, some which needed ESD precautions (CMOS parts,
DRAMs,etc.) and some which didn't (resistors, capacitors).  It was
found that workers would be working with something in one category,
and the habits would carry over to the others, so the industry, in
general, went to the "everything is ESD sensitive" approach.

The worst offenders for ESD are the engineers (like those of us
reading the list!), because they actually know what parts are
sensitive and which aren't, and tend to take shortcuts with the non-
sensitive parts.  Which works, sort of, until they guess wrong, and
cook something.  "Hey, why is the NF on this LNA 0.2 dB higher than
it was yesterday?"

jim


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

So looking at ESD mat material at Digikey, there appears to be a bewildering array of choices. Elastomer, rubber, vinyl, thermoplastic, laminate, foam rubber, and polyethelene. Any guidelines about what to choose? Scott On Jan 25, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Ed Palmer <ed_palmer@sasktel.net> wrote: > I've still got a paper copy of an HP Bench Brief from 1983 that was > one of my first introductions to the dangers of ESD. I've used a > wrist strap and antistatic mat since then. ESD protection in the > ICs has improved since then, but I think that the article is still > mostly applicable today. > > http://www.hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1983-03-05.pdf > > Ed > > Lux, Jim (337C) wrote: >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- >>> bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz >>> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:27 AM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material >>> >>> Bruce wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an asset >>>> in >>>> avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static >>>> discharges when >>>> handling modern semiconductors. Would it make sense to spray >>>> the Masonite >>>> with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to make >>>> the masonite >>>> slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC >>>> connections >>>> could not >>>> safely rest upon it? Is there a better-suited material that >>>> could be used >>>> to replace the Masonite? >>>> >> >> One generally looks for static-dissipative surfaces, rather than >> conductive surfaces. 1 Megohm/square, for instance. The idea is to >> keep everything isopotential as charge drops onto things, not to >> rigorously establish a common voltage. >> >> >>> I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use >>> anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I >>> try >>> to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less >>> in the winter). I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for >>> 35 >>> years and haven't lost one to static yet >>> >> >> You haven't lost one *that you know of*. It also depends on the >> kinds of parts you're working with. There are some that are quite >> sensitive AND which don't fail outright, but just degrade >> performance a bit when they take a hit. It also depends on the >> energy behind the hit, of course. An example might be the >> MiniCircuits ERA-4 or ERA-5 (just because I happen to have the data >> sheet handy). Take a look at the later pages in the report, and >> you can see where the gain changes slightly as a result of 100V ESD >> hits (see page 6, where you can see gain dropping about 1.5 dB over >> 8 pulses, with about 0.1dB per hit.) >> >> As they say at the end of the report: >> The new amplifier ERA-4XSM shows gradual degradation in the gain >> and the >> device voltage. That fact is not so bad. Even with the multiple >> stress a customer >> would rather have gradual changes then catastrophic failure. The >> amplifier >> withstands a single 100V ESD pulse, or 3 pulses at 50V. >> >> http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/an60028.pdf >> >> >> ---- >> >> When we (JPL) do site visits to vendors, lackadaisical approaches >> to ESD handling are one of the common problems. For us, who are >> building just one or two of something that's going to be going >> somewhere where repair isn't an option, latent damage and gradual >> degradation are a big deal. >> It's really a "habit" thing that everyone has to get used to. >> That's why even nuts and bolts come in ESD packaging (even though >> they're obviously ESD immune): it gets people in the mindset of >> "come in the area, put on the wrist strap". Back in the 70s, when >> ESD processes started to be used, they would have multiple >> categories of parts, some which needed ESD precautions (CMOS parts, >> DRAMs,etc.) and some which didn't (resistors, capacitors). It was >> found that workers would be working with something in one category, >> and the habits would carry over to the others, so the industry, in >> general, went to the "everything is ESD sensitive" approach. >> >> The *worst* offenders for ESD are the engineers (like those of us >> reading the list!), because they actually know what parts are >> sensitive and which aren't, and tend to take shortcuts with the non- >> sensitive parts. Which works, sort of, until they guess wrong, and >> cook something. "Hey, why is the NF on this LNA 0.2 dB higher than >> it was yesterday?" >> >> jim >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
BH
Bill Hawkins
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 9:24 PM

My first job was in a blasting cap plant in 1960. There were
military devices so sensitive they could be set off by turning
on a nearby fluorescent desk lamp.

I learned that the human body has a capacitance of 400 pico F.
Getting up from a chair could raise a couple of kilovolts. We
walked on conductive rubber floors wearing conductive rubber
shoes. Bench tops were conductive rubber. Nobody had thought of
the wrist strap yet.

In those days, rubber was made conductive with carbon black. It
was almost as effective as a pencil at marking things. If the
anti-static material is not black, maybe it won't be a marking
hazard.

A megohm and 400 pF has a time constant of 400 microseconds, but
you do get the kilovolt spike. The wrist strap looks really good
as long as your motion is the only source of static electricity.
It keeps your body from ever reaching kilovolt potentials.

Bill Hawkins

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Scott Burris
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:11 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

So looking at ESD mat material at Digikey, there appears to be a
bewildering array of choices.  Elastomer, rubber, vinyl,
thermoplastic, laminate, foam rubber, and polyethelene.

Any guidelines about what to choose?

Scott

My first job was in a blasting cap plant in 1960. There were military devices so sensitive they could be set off by turning on a nearby fluorescent desk lamp. I learned that the human body has a capacitance of 400 pico F. Getting up from a chair could raise a couple of kilovolts. We walked on conductive rubber floors wearing conductive rubber shoes. Bench tops were conductive rubber. Nobody had thought of the wrist strap yet. In those days, rubber was made conductive with carbon black. It was almost as effective as a pencil at marking things. If the anti-static material is not black, maybe it won't be a marking hazard. A megohm and 400 pF has a time constant of 400 microseconds, but you do get the kilovolt spike. The wrist strap looks really good as long as your motion is the only source of static electricity. It keeps your body from ever reaching kilovolt potentials. Bill Hawkins -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Scott Burris Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:11 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material So looking at ESD mat material at Digikey, there appears to be a bewildering array of choices. Elastomer, rubber, vinyl, thermoplastic, laminate, foam rubber, and polyethelene. Any guidelines about what to choose? Scott
LJ
Lux, Jim (337C)
Mon, Jan 25, 2010 9:38 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bill Hawkins

I learned that the human body has a capacitance of 400 pico F.
Getting up from a chair could raise a couple of kilovolts. We
walked on conductive rubber floors wearing conductive rubber
shoes. Bench tops were conductive rubber. Nobody had thought of
the wrist strap yet.

If you're in and out of ESD areas, then shoes with conductive soles are easier to use than always wrist strapping. Ditto if you're working on something big where the cord for the wrist strap gets in the way.  In some of our clean rooms, we have booties to go over your street shoes that have conductive coatings on them, and a conductive ribbon that you tuck into your sock to make contact.  (And you go stand on a test pad to make sure, of course).

I like the conductive shoes approach, it's pretty screw up proof, because you don't have to remember to plug your wrist strap in when you come to the bench, but the floor needs to be conductive, too.

In those days, rubber was made conductive with carbon black. It
was almost as effective as a pencil at marking things. If the
anti-static material is not black, maybe it won't be a marking
hazard.

These days, the black bins are dissipative and not marking.  The black foam is history (we all have ICs with corroded leads in the garage where the black foam turns to goo). Here at JPl, we don't use the pink bags/peanuts/stuff at all, because apparently, the coating can flake or rub off.  We use plastic that has a very thin metalized layer, and I think that's pretty much industry standard now.

A megohm and 400 pF has a time constant of 400 microseconds, but
you do get the kilovolt spike. The wrist strap looks really good
as long as your motion is the only source of static electricity.
It keeps your body from ever reaching kilovolt potentials.

And the megohm is important to keep you from inadvertently dying when you happen to accidentally contact the AC line.

> -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bill Hawkins > I learned that the human body has a capacitance of 400 pico F. > Getting up from a chair could raise a couple of kilovolts. We > walked on conductive rubber floors wearing conductive rubber > shoes. Bench tops were conductive rubber. Nobody had thought of > the wrist strap yet. > If you're in and out of ESD areas, then shoes with conductive soles are easier to use than always wrist strapping. Ditto if you're working on something big where the cord for the wrist strap gets in the way. In some of our clean rooms, we have booties to go over your street shoes that have conductive coatings on them, and a conductive ribbon that you tuck into your sock to make contact. (And you go stand on a test pad to make sure, of course). I like the conductive shoes approach, it's pretty screw up proof, because you don't have to remember to plug your wrist strap in when you come to the bench, but the floor needs to be conductive, too. > In those days, rubber was made conductive with carbon black. It > was almost as effective as a pencil at marking things. If the > anti-static material is not black, maybe it won't be a marking > hazard. These days, the black bins are dissipative and not marking. The black foam is history (we all have ICs with corroded leads in the garage where the black foam turns to goo). Here at JPl, we don't use the pink bags/peanuts/stuff at all, because apparently, the coating can flake or rub off. We use plastic that has a very thin metalized layer, and I think that's pretty much industry standard now. > > A megohm and 400 pF has a time constant of 400 microseconds, but > you do get the kilovolt spike. The wrist strap looks really good > as long as your motion is the only source of static electricity. > It keeps your body from ever reaching kilovolt potentials. > And the megohm is important to keep you from inadvertently dying when you happen to accidentally contact the AC line.