Open owner's sites and particitation (or not) in the PUP community
It is indeed unfortunate that some ownersb sites are closed. One has to
wonder
what it is that's worthy of being under wraps. Good on Selene.
It is also distasteful to me that the principals of some of the most
successful
design/build firms seem to think it's OK to lurk this list without
contributing anything
and then dump on a contributing member and disappear when something which is
in opposition to their product is posted. Wherebs the civility?
Regards,
John
"Seahorse"
If you take a look
at the Selene Owners web site and look at the distribution of Selenes, you
will find them proudly owned around the world -- openly, displaying our
warts and blemishes on an owners forum to which anyone can subscribe.
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir
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p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
John said: "... It is indeed unfortunate that some owners sites are
closed..."
I've been a Nordhavn owner for about 12 years, and active on the Nordhavn
owner's group throughout that time. The idea of opening up the group to the
public has been raised a few times. To my recollection, Nordhavn has never
commented on this topic beyond saying they would go along with whatever the
group wanted.
It is the owners, and the list owner (which I believe is Scott Strickland,
not Nordhavn), who have kept the list "for owners only." I can't, and don't,
speak for the owners, but the primary sentiment I've heard expressed is one
of "don't fix it if it's not broken." The owners group has been a valuable
resource for the owners, and is working so well that I don't think anyone
wants to see it change. Were the list opened to the public it might change
the culture of the list, and it's not clear what the benefit (to the owners)
would be.
Ken Williams
Sans Souci, Nordhavn 68
To Ken's point, Nordhavn(PAE) has never sponsored or taken any kind of
leadership role in the owners lists. It appears, as was once described
to me, that it is company policy to NOT sponsor such lists so as to
ensure a free flow of information and avoid implicit or explicit
filtration of any kind.
There are several such lists, a main one open to all boat owners and
company employees and management, and then some others that are
specific to certain models.
Notably, at least one of those model-specific lists does not invite
owners or employees of PAE (nor in general any industry providers)
access either. Strictly an owners exchange.
The discussion of opening the lists is pretty much an annual event and
can become quite spirited. Yet in every case, the majority of owners
vote NO.
Nordhavn has no say in that discussion.
The most common argument is to keep the noise level down and keep the
Nordhavn-specific technical level as high as possible.
Bottom line, right or wrong... the fact that the lists remain closed
is not a reflection of the company but of the boat owners who own the
lists.
John Marshall
Serendipity - Nordhavn 5520
Sequim Bay, WA
On Nov 15, 2008, at 7:12 AM, Ken Williams wrote:
John said: "... It is indeed unfortunate that some owners sites are
closed..."
I've been a Nordhavn owner for about 12 years, and active on the
Nordhavn
owner's group throughout that time. The idea of opening up the group
to the
public has been raised a few times. To my recollection, Nordhavn has
never
commented on this topic beyond saying they would go along with
whatever the
group wanted.
It is the owners, and the list owner (which I believe is Scott
Strickland,
not Nordhavn), who have kept the list "for owners only." I can't,
and don't,
speak for the owners, but the primary sentiment I've heard expressed
is one
of "don't fix it if it's not broken." The owners group has been a
valuable
resource for the owners, and is working so well that I don't think
anyone
wants to see it change. Were the list opened to the public it might
change
the culture of the list, and it's not clear what the benefit (to the
owners)
would be.
Ken Williams
Sans Souci, Nordhavn 68
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
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Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
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Passagemakers,
I clearly stated that I UNDERSTAND Captain Ken Williams and The Nordhavn's
Owners Group's Logic for keeping their list closed, and I didn't mean to
open this wound again.
I am grateful to the owners who have opened their doors on the Willard Foum
and I just signed-up.
I look foward to hearing back about the Kadey-Krogen.
Dave Evans
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:12 AM, Ken Williams kenw@talkspot.com wrote:
John said: "... It is indeed unfortunate that some owners sites are
closed..."
I've been a Nordhavn owner for about 12 years, and active on the Nordhavn
owner's group throughout that time. The idea of opening up the group to the
public has been raised a few times. To my recollection, Nordhavn has never
commented on this topic beyond saying they would go along with whatever the
group wanted.
It is the owners, and the list owner (which I believe is Scott Strickland,
not Nordhavn), who have kept the list "for owners only." I can't, and
don't,
speak for the owners, but the primary sentiment I've heard expressed is one
of "don't fix it if it's not broken." The owners group has been a valuable
resource for the owners, and is working so well that I don't think anyone
wants to see it change. Were the list opened to the public it might change
the culture of the list, and it's not clear what the benefit (to the
owners)
would be.
Ken Williams
Sans Souci, Nordhavn 68
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
On Nov 15, 2008, at 1:45 PM, David Evans wrote:
I look foward to hearing back about the Kadey-Krogen.
As promised, this is our Krogen List.
http://nunas.com/mailman/listinfo/krogens_nunas.com
And here is the archive.
http://nunas.com/pipermail/krogens_nunas.com/
This list was started by Maurice Nunas, and eventually we hope to
morph this into a better site.
Anyway you asked and now you have received. Please be respectful of
the list as you can tell by the URL it is on a private website and
he's picking up the dime on the traffic.
John Ford
KK44 Feisty Lady
Thank-you John for helping to get the oars in the water.
Dave
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:28 PM, John Ford johnpford@mac.com wrote:
On Nov 15, 2008, at 1:45 PM, David Evans wrote:
I look foward to hearing back about the Kadey-Krogen.
As promised, this is our Krogen List.
http://nunas.com/mailman/listinfo/krogens_nunas.com
And here is the archive.
http://nunas.com/pipermail/krogens_nunas.com/
This list was started by Maurice Nunas, and eventually we hope to
morph this into a better site.
Anyway you asked and now you have received. Please be respectful of
the list as you can tell by the URL it is on a private website and
he's picking up the dime on the traffic.
John Ford
KK44 Feisty Lady
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.